Vietnam collection (lessons plus)

[SWJED]

I raise some questions about the new approach in Iraq at PrairiePundit.

I am sure there are many who may disagree with this take, but I think it is worth discussing the premise of "driving people to the insurgents" in Iraq as well as the effect of the new approach on morale. When you consider that the insurgence is composed of three primary elements, al Qaeda, former regime elements, and Iraqi rejectionist, it is pretty clear to me that the first two are the biggest problem and also the least likely to have been motivated by how the US approached Phase IV operations of the Iraq war plan. Al Qaeda is primarily motivated by religious bigotry that has nothing to do with any approach to counterinsurgency warfare. The former regime elements are just continuing to do what they did when Saddam was in power, only now they have people shooting back at them. The Iraqi rejectionist are the hardest to define, but perhaps they may have been motivated by a reaction to the troops, but they also could have been motivated by native tribalism that would react to any outsider no matter what the treatment.

Merv,

Longer response later as time permits. I have read American Soldier, Plan of Attack, My Year in Iraq, No True Glory, Cobra II and Fiasco.

Moreover, I know or am at least acquainted with the authors and many, many of the primary sources of the later three books. To be sure - I work on these issues in my "day job".

The Franks and Bremer books are basically single-sourced autobiographies - whose authors have a vested interest in their "legacy", while West, Trainor, Gordon and Ricks relied on multiple (read hundreds) of primary first-hand sources.

The bottom-line here is that we efed up – especially Phase IV planning and execution (and the shaping that should have been resident in Phases I - III) – and need to learn the lessons of that ef up to insure we do not repeat the same ef ups we seem to relearn (more like do not learn) time and time again. By efing up Phase IV planning we indeed created an insurgency that was not "pre-ordained."

S/F

Dave

[Merv Benson]

Dave,

I look forward to your longer response. I still do not think we created al Qaeda or the former regime elements. I think a case can be made for the suggestion that the Iraqi rejectionist may have been reactions to our actions. I am not arguing that we did not make mistakes. I am still waiting for some author to take on the small footprint, large footprint debate that effected troop levels. I think the early belief that we needed better intelligence instead of more troops led to many of the problems, by encouraging large roundups of suspects and engaging in aggressive interrigation. Certainly the intelligence got better as more Iraqi troops came on line and improved the force to space ratio at the same time. A better force to space ratio should and did result in better intelligence.

However, the situations in Fallujah or Tal Afar could not have been resolved by being nicer to the terrorist. I think the reactive approach at Ramadi has resulted in not just slower progress, but may result in greater casualites and lower morale. Cobra II is still a deeply flawed book in my opinion. I look forward to reading Fiasco even if I don't care for the title.

My point about the insurgents making war against the people rather than the government or the US still argues against the hug an insurgent approach.

[SWJED]

...on PBS - An hour with Tom Ricks (video) - 27 July 2006.

[slapout9]

What is your day job? I know you are a consultant but can you elaborate some or is SS? secret stuff?

[SWJED]

What is your day job? I know you are a consultant but can you elaborate some or is SS? secret stuff?

Consultant - urban operations and Small Wars issues for the Marine Corps at Quantico. Lead Marine Action Officer for the USMC - JFCOM Joint Urban Warrior Program as well as many Emerald Express (Insights and Observations) seminars that addressed OIF to include MCO (Phase III), SASO, COIN and Interagency Operations. Producer of the new USMC documentary - New Challenges for Military Operations in the 21st Century: Emerald Express Insights and Observations from Operation Iraqi Freedom.

[Tc2642]

Dave,

I look forward to your longer response. I still do not think we created al Qaeda or the former regime elements. I think a case can be made for the suggestion that the Iraqi rejectionist may have been reactions to our actions.

In regards to your quote above, I was wondering who would be mainly to blame for creating Al Quaeda in Iraq, since before the war they did not exist within that country?

[Uboat509]

In regards to your quote above, I was wondering who would be mainly to blame for creating Al Quaeda in Iraq, since before the war they did not exist within that country?

Says who?

SFC W

[Tc2642]

Says who?

SFC W

Well, They didn't, Saddam's political machine would not allow such elements which could undermine his own authority to be in his country. Please understand that I am not saying that there may have been 'elements' of the radical jihadist's operating within Iraq, but they were on a cause to nowhere, Saddam would have stamped them out as soon as he found them. My point is that the efficent, well funded and deadly organisation known as Al Qaeda in the Land of two rivers did not exist before the invasion. That it is mainly made up of foreign fighters seeking Jihaad against america. Think about it, it opened up a whole new place which they could blow up and shoot at Americans.

[RTK]

Well, They didn't, Saddam's political machine would not allow such elements which could undermine his own authority to be in his country. Please understand that I am not saying that there may have been 'elements' of the radical jihadist's operating within Iraq, but they were on a cause to nowhere, Saddam would have stamped them out as soon as he found them.

You mean like he did with the MEK? Oh, wait...he didn't.....

[Tc2642]

You mean like he did with the MEK? Oh, wait...he didn't.....

That may be, but I can find no evidence of Al quaeda operating in Iraq before 2003, if you have information to the contary then please send me some links.