Targeting

[William F. Owen]

Well I see EBO has yet again changed, and become something else.

All EBO documents I read, I just cross out the words "Effects based", and see if it still makes sense.

Hurricane Katrina? Who was the enemy, the will of which, had to be broken. Who had to be defeated?

I attended a UK EBO workshop three years ago, and eventually got one senior officer to admit, that the logical extension of his premise was that he could legitimately mislead allied forces, if it created the effects he wanted.

That being the case, might someone progress this by giving me the current definition of EBO, or "effects based thinking," or "effects based planning."

[Ron Humphrey]

Well I see EBO has yet again changed, and become something else.

All EBO documents I read, I just cross out the words "Effects based", and see if it still makes sense.

Hurricane Katrina? Who was the enemy, the will of which, had to be broken. Who had to be defeated?

I attended a UK EBO workshop three years ago, and eventually got one senior officer to admit, that the logical extension of his premise was that he could legitimately mislead allied forces, if it created the effects he wanted.

That being the case, might someone progress this by giving me the current definition of EBO, or "effects based thinking," or "effects based planning."

I'm not sure what to point out other than those in the dome who had to be encouraged to get out the hard way after assaulting and causing pain and suffering to others.

Having been there though I can tell you that there were a lot of effects which would have helped to move things along more smoothly and successfully.

How do you get parish presidents, and above to get off their I own this mentality long enough to address areas where only limited time to try clearing (searching) had been available so that civilian and military orgs could get to addressing them.

How do you get effective cooperation between various orgs ,local,regional,state, and federal when at every level there were entities working on separate agendas rather than one common picture, goal, intent (as it were)

The quickest effects based decision I saw shortly after getting there was the people at dominoe's pizza getting generators, pizza stuff and bottled water thereby openng their doors within three to four days after getting hit.

We got tired of pizza but they made a killing financially.

[William F. Owen]

How do you get effective cooperation between various orgs ,local,regional,state, and federal when at every level there were entities working on separate agendas rather than one common picture, goal, intent (as it were)

The quickest effects based decision I saw shortly after getting there was the people at dominoe's pizza getting generators, pizza stuff and bottled water thereby openng their doors within three to four days after getting hit.

So how is any of that a product of "effects based thinking"?

This is leadership and common sense. That is what the military should create. Men who can impose their will on others in dangerous and difficult circumstances, to get them to do things they don't want to do or don't know how to.

I always come back to the same thing. How is anything "effects based" different from anything we ever did that worked? How does calling it effects based, make it better?

[Ron Humphrey]

So how is any of that a product of "effects based thinking"?

This is leadership and common sense. That is what the military should create. Men who can impose their will on others in dangerous and difficult circumstances, to get them to do things they don't want to do or don't know how to.

I always come back to the same thing. How is anything "effects based" different from anything we ever did that worked? How does calling it effects based, make it better?

is to create a standardized system which can be used as a sort of quick reference guide for those of us to whom common sense might not be such a common thing

[William F. Owen]

is to create a standardized system which can be used as a sort of quick reference guide for those of us to whom common sense might not be such a common thing

Quick reference guide? So EBP and EBT are infact Aide Memoir Formats in the same way as the Five Paragraph orders format is.

Situation, Mission, Execution, Command/Control and Administration. ( SMECA )

IMO, Five Paragraph orders format is good for almost anything, and where even the OODA loop has its home.

[slapout9]

Wilf, here is a little deeper back round on the beginnings of what became known as EBO.

1-I guess this is pretty much the paper that started it all. "The Enemy As A System" by Col. John Warden
http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/a...les/warden.htm


2-From that original concept of "Systems Warfare" it went to this, which is why EBO has long been associated with Air Power only, which is was never meant to be.
http://www.aef.org/pub/psbook.pdf

[William F. Owen]

Wilf, here is a little deeper back round on the beginnings of what became known as EBO.

1-I guess this is pretty much the paper that started it all. "The Enemy As A System" by Col. John Warden
http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/a...les/warden.htm


2-From that original concept of "Systems Warfare" it went to this, which is why EBO has long been associated with Air Power only, which is was never meant to be.
http://www.aef.org/pub/psbook.pdf

Yes, The Warden paper I know well and reject it utterly, for the same reason Tira and whole bunch of other folks do.

Quote: In today's world, strategic entities, be they an industrial state or a guerrilla organization, are heavily dependent on physical means. If the physical side of the equation can be driven close to zero, the best morale in the world is not going to produce a high number on the outcome side of the equation. Looking at this equation, we are struck by the fact that the physical side of the enemy is, in theory, perfectly knowable and predictable. Conversely, the morale side, the human side, is beyond the realm of the predictable in a particular situation because humans are so different from each other. Our war efforts, therefore, should be directed primarily at the physical side.

This assumes breaking stuff is decisive. It is not. We have vast amounts of evidence against this.

This is not attacking the will and cohesion of the enemy nor is it anything to do with what many touted as EBO - so how come this is always cited as the Rosetta Stone of EBO? - when Warden is advocating something that is purely physical destruction. Any relevance to COIN?

[Norfolk]

Wilf, here is a little deeper back round on the beginnings of what became known as EBO.

1-I guess this is pretty much the paper that started it all. "The Enemy As A System" by Col. John Warden
http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/a...les/warden.htm


2-From that original concept of "Systems Warfare" it went to this, which is why EBO has long been associated with Air Power only, which is was never meant to be.
http://www.aef.org/pub/psbook.pdf

slap, when I've read enough of your postings, can I claim that as credit towards an MMAS at Maxwell (and if I read your SBW stuff when you've finished it, can I claim that as sufficient for the entire MMAS, or even a PhD?)