Quote Originally Posted by Tom Odom View Post
Ken,

While I completely agree our ME policy has been proked up for some time, let's be real. Number one please define the term "Arabist". Do you mean someone targeted toward ME policy? Or someone who speaks Arabic? Or someone who sympathizes with "Arabs," as usually defined by someone who does not?
I meant those who 'study' Arab culture and the region and who as a result become become at least mildly enamored of the culture and people and who then frequently, in my observation, have a tendency to favor Arab centric policies. They also in my observation do not truly understand the subtlety of Arab political maneuvering and do not seem to understand that what is said in English and what is said in Arabic -- and in private -- are frequently three quite different things. I can cite DS/DS and the 'diplomatic' efforts in the year or two before it, to include listening to what Saddam and Mubarak said as opposed to watching what he did as but one example. Syria's move into Lebanon, encouraged by us, is an earlier one. I won't even go into the total misreading of Arafat.

Long way of saying one who sympathizes, I guess -- though I am not one who does not...
Second, when has academia been in charge of ME policy? And when have we depended on academia to set said policy?
You're kidding, right? They aren't in charge of policy -- but the folks who are were educated in those schools and under those people.
As for "Arabists" in government keeping us out of trouble, there are similar problems with that thesis. You yourself have said good luck changing the poilticians on current policy regarding US-Israeli relations. I would advise you that one might expect similar luck in changing political policy toward the Saudis, especially with a Republican Administration. The point being that "Arabists" or "Africanists" influence policy within boundaries set by politicians. If they screw it up, they certainly got help in doing so.

Best
Tom
We can disagree on much of that. The policy toward the Saudis has been very consistent from FDR forward under Admins from both parties; the Republicans just have more time on station.

I wasn't talking about changing any policies; what I said was the Arabists ""who should have kept us out of most of these messes are in fact those that contributed the most to us being where we are today"" (emphasis added / kw). Many but certainly not all of those Arabists have consistently misinterpreted signals from the ME and operated in some cases under the delusion that the Arabs are like us -- or want to be -- and that they think pretty much like we do. Nothing could be further from the truth. Goes back to the 'rational actor' argument; the Arabs are quite rational actors, more so than we are in many cases and they're certainly generally more moral and honest -- but the rationality is quite different and honesty is very differently perceived in the two cultures. Neither is wrong, they're just different.

That's all I said.

I spent enough time in and did enough travel around the ME almost 40 years ago to know we were roundly despised even then, a borderline laughing stock because of out national naivete and that our media and culture were anathema to many. I was also told by a great many people in several nations that the quality of thought emanating from the US with respect to the ME was dangerously wrong and excessively western-centric. My belief is that any changes in that over the last 40 years have not been for the better. If that is true, then I suggest it sort of makes my case; the very people who should have contributed to keeping us out these pickles sort of inadvertently and with the best of intentions, helped put us in the jar.