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  1. #11
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    apologize for having been not quite so clear as I perhaps should have.

    I think you may find that we are in agreement for the most part.

    The fact that Islam or as I prefer to say Faith(this is because by making this differentiation one might be able to avoid some pre-established prejudices while considering the arguments) is at the base of Pakistani societal interactions and as such must be taken into much greater account when dealing with their government. That said I'm not sure it differs that much in the approaches which must be used in any interactions with foriegn powers.

    We have a saying here (It takes one to know one) and this is a truism in my opinion which fits. The only long term solutions for Pakistan and others is from within. That includes not only political but also social issues which must be addressed. If the greater contributing factor to social instability is found to be in power struggles between groups using competing interpretations of Islam and it's fundamentals to support themselves then it seems to make sense that the ultimate change must take form from within those groups.

    There must be a definitive demarcation to a more reasonable(taken in the loosest sense) form of faith which allows for governance of said larger society to lead in a more secular less ideologically driven way so as to allow for those within its borders to continue to worship as they wish without necessarily changing the underlying societal norms. This in turn results in various changes such as the more refined study of their given faith for personal growth while at the same time further seperating expectations of the governance to be the arbitor of all that is their faith.

    It may seem counter-intuitive but in order to acheive greater freedom for their government to govern they have to stop looking to it for religious guidance as well as become more educated in what they themselves truly believe. Religion must be seperate from government if only because it is only in this manner that it both the church and the state may flourish. The government however has no business in defining the role of religion because this at best engenders nothing less than dictatorship of faith.

    The face of any society is it's accepted moree's and this face only change's as those moree's adapt to changing conditions. This and this alone is the area where anyone from the outside can truly have a lasting effect on those societies.
    __________________


    Ron,

    There is merit in what you have stated.

    While in agreement with what you have stated, there is one issue where I would like to differ. That is Faith as you so aptly put it.


    When dealing with most other nations (non Islam), Faith really does not matter, more so, with countries having multi-faith population.

    As far as Pakistan is concerned, it is an interesting case. Though Islamic, it does not have the flexibility as say, Turkey or even Egypt or Jordan. Short of repeating myself, I would still like to state that the raison d’ętre for Pakistan is Islam. I have enunciated the same in my article, ‘Military Involvement in the Political Development of Pakistan” in PINNACLE, the ARTRAC Journal of the Indian Army Vol2 No Oct 2003. Sadly, it is not available on the internet or else it would indicate why and to what extent Islam is the be all and end all of decisions in Pakistan. The magazine maybe available in your military library, as there is an exchange programme in vogue or so I learn. You may like to also peruse Ayesha Jalal’s “The State of Martial Rule” (Cambridge) and Tan Tai Yong’s “Punjab and the Making of Pakistan” (South Asia vol xvii, 1995).

    You are absolutely correct that the problems in Pakistan have to be solved from within. But the issue is that in so far as Afghanistan, no govt can abandon the tenets of Islam and no govt can appear fighting and killing fellow Moslem. And yet, the terrorists operating in Afghanistan, FATA and NWFP are but Moslems!

    Pakistan, as I see it, is in a Catch 22 to situation. They are aware that the terrorists are creating havoc within Pakistan and de-stabilsing the country and yet cannot fight them with the vigour needed since they are fellow Moslems. I read somewhere that the ISI was actually assisting Mehsud! If true, it is very odd that a terrorist creating mayhem against Pakistan is being assisted by the ISI! It maybe recalled that both Musharraf and the current govt are engaging in the WoT but have done deals, and have stated that they will do so again, with the terrorists! And yet, they require the US assistance in money and weaponry and yet cannot abandon Islamic tenets where one does not fight fellow Moslems!

    This is the dichotomy that prevents the Pakistan govt from applying itself wholeheartedly to eliminate the menace of the terrorists.

    The unfortunate part of the Pakistani governance, be it military dictatorship or democracy, is that they cannot separate State from the Faith.

    Islam alone is holding Pakistan as a single entity. There is immense resentment amongst the non Punjabi elements against Punjab cornering all the 'goodies'. Bangladesh, too, came into being because of the dominance the Punjabis want to assert in the governance of Pakistan and the Punjabis are the majority in the Armed Forces, which is the defacto arbiter of Pakistan's destiny. This aspect is also mentioned by Musharraf in his book.

    The way out, as I see it, to ensure Pakistan is not used as a base for terrorists to sally forth into Afghanistan is to send in more ‘training teams’ into Pakistan to ‘train’ the Army and the Paramilitary in COIN and at the same time under the guise of training mount operations against the terrorist in the lair. That way, the ISAF interests are served and the Pakistani govt, in turn, does not lose face amongst the population.
    Last edited by Ray; 04-09-2008 at 04:31 PM.

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