Counterinsurgency Education Request

[Vic Bout]

I have found it interesting in conventional forces unwillingness to train with SF and SFs unwillingness as well. On installations where both are stationed we should be taking advantage of each other. Simple think an ODA using an infantry battalion as its indig force for a few weeks of training. The experiences both would gain. Additionally in a perfect world many of these units that are stationed together would be deployed in the same AO simultaneously. The working relationship and capabilities would be a sight to see IMO.

Somebody, somewhere is trying to make the SF/CF integration/interoperability piece work. Case in point: prior to my last IZ deployment my ODA went to JRTC (mid-2006). Before we got there we were swamped with SOF/Conventional integration/interoperability checklists, how-to's, and common operational picture stuff. Upon arriving Ft Polk we were linked with a conventional Cav unit and told that they would be deploying to and owning the same battlespace for our deployment. In short, somebody got it right...train with the guys you're going to fight next to. We had an outstanding JRTC rotation....most of the integration/interoperability stuff was sensible, relative and workable.

Of course, the good idea fairy fell off the wagon (again) and the happily ever after never happended. The Cav unit was re-directed to another location in-country and we ended up working with a BN of the 82nd instead. Luckily, they had mature leadership and a cross-pollenated staff (former SOF experience) that enabled us to build a lasting rapport that supported a successful combat rotation.

There are some SF/CF horror stories to come out of OIF/OEF and I actually lived through a couple of them. And, as in all cases, it comes down to leadership. Pedantic, bull-headed, SOF-hating conventional 0-6's almost always trump immature and inexperienced ODA commanders.

But then I'm just running off at the keyboard...

[Ken White]

... And, as in all cases, it comes down to leadership. Pedantic, bull-headed, SOF-hating conventional 0-6's almost always trump immature and inexperienced ODA commanders.

that hardheaded big Army hating Double Decade guys can push immature and inexperienced ODA commanders to places they probably shouldn't go.

There's plenty of fault on both sides. That said, I was glad to read the first part of your comment; good to know it can and is being done right.

[Randy Brown]

I realize this might be a "dead thread," but, given our earlier conversation here regarding "Defence of Duffer's Drift," I thought I might call attention to the recent and similarly formatted CALL Pub 08-39, "Nightmare on Wazir Street." Check it out at: call.army.mil.

[Steve Blair]

This pub is discussed in this thread. Check it out if you're interested.