Quote Originally Posted by Gian P Gentile View Post
Ratzel asked:



The American Army (and Marines) are battle hardened after 6 years of Astan and 5 years of Iraq. No question about it; lots of hard-nosed combat experience. But it is a combat experience of a certain discrete type using certain types of discrete combat skills. We should not delude ourselves to think that just because we are good at coin and the types of combat ops that go along with it in Iraq that we are automatically prepared for other forms of higher intensity combat. I have used this example before but consider the fact that operational logistics in Iraq are node-based and carried largely by civilian contractors. What would happen if a couple of combat brigades in Iraq had to pick up, move in a certain direction and conduct a sustained land operation in the field without fixed bases for support for 3 months? You see the concern here? When was the last time in Iraq that a Division moved off of its fixed base and conducted a movement to contact? Not since I was a BCT XO in the march up in 2003. Clearly there is supreme tactical expertise at the small unit level with the combat outfits fighting in Sadr city now; but we should not confuse that expertise with the kind of expertise that it took the lead American armor divisions in the break out of St Lo. And again the Israeli experience in Lebanon is instructive here. Read Andy Exum's superb battle analysis of Hiz in that fight where they fought tenaciously as small squads of infantry and AT teams. The Israeli Army was woefully unprepared for this higher level of fighting after many years of conducting counter-terrorism ops in the Palestinian territories. These are the concerns that many of us in the American Army have today; and they are not made up and hyperbolic but real. Lastly, the British 7th Armored Division by 43 had themselves become battle-hardened after years of fighting the Germans in north Africa. But when that 7th Armored Division hit the beaches in Normandy and over the next few weeks tried to take Caen they ran into many problems due to unfamiliarity with the new terrain and a different German force. The point here is that battle experience of one type is not automatically transferable to another.

I guess there's two levels to think about then? It would seem as if you're talking more about the Battalion level and above when talking about your scenario. I'm not very familiar with that level of planning.

From the company and below, the soldiers are used to working in a stressful environment and have most likely gotten down the little things like "actions at the objective" or clearing a building. The company medevac and skills like calling for fire or even familiararity with equipment should be much improved. These skills work the same wherever one goes (except for issues of terrain of course).

The higher level is something I know little about. I'll take your word for it that nodal based logistics are less complicated than a long logistics train, (like the one up to Baghdad). I took part in the invasion as well, and am uncertain of why we would "loose" this ability though? I don't remember seeing many contractors on the way to Baghdad either (I'm not saying there weren't any I just didn't see any)?

My final point is this: If I had to choose between the current military after 5 years of combat with less HIC training compared to the military that existed before 911 that had loads of HIC training; I would choose the former any day. That's not to say we should be overconfident of course.

I will check out the reading your suggested, thank you.