Saving their Souls in Fallujah?

[RTK]

http://www.kavkazcenter.com/eng/cont.../10/9241.shtml


http://in.reuters.com/article/southA...31259720080105


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004May15.html

I don't doubt this; hell I've seen them. But I can say, catagorically, the Christian Ministries are not part of a larger Scheme of Maneuver. We can't even get tank parts to the right place at the right time. The fact that we could get Billy Bob and his Bible to the right place after heavy kinetics is amusing to me.

[marct]

Hi RTK,

I don't doubt this; hell I've seen them. But I can say, catagorically, the Christian Ministries are not part of a larger Scheme of Maneuver. We can't even get tank parts to the right place at the right time. The fact that we could get Billy Bob and his Bible to the right place after heavy kinetics is amusing to me.

"Amusing" isn't exactly the word I would choose ! I don't believe that the Christian missionaries are part of a larger maneuver plan; some appear to have gone in for humanitarian reasons, which I have no problems with. The ones who have gone in, on the other hand, with a "mission to convert" should be, IMO, charged with interfering in the mission. I keep thinking back to the effects of one particular cult leader who stirred up all sorts of trouble in the Southern Sudan with his outrageous actions and promises....

Sarajevo, you are absolutely correct in pointing out the problems these people can, and in a number of cases, are causing. As I said, I have no problems with the ones on a humanitarian mission - their actions speak for themselves. The ones who pull the "convert and you'll eat" type of scenario, OTOH, should be dealt with severely.

You know, RTK's right; it's not a conspiracy, it's a problem with "free riders" - people who take advantage of a situation that they contributed nothing to.

[RTK]

Hi RTK,



"Amusing" isn't exactly the word I would choose ! I don't believe that the Christian missionaries are part of a larger maneuver plan; some appear to have gone in for humanitarian reasons, which I have no problems with. The ones who have gone in, on the other hand, with a "mission to convert" should be, IMO, charged with interfering in the mission. I keep thinking back to the effects of one particular cult leader who stirred up all sorts of trouble in the Southern Sudan with his outrageous actions and promises....

Sarajevo, you are absolutely correct in pointing out the problems these people can, and in a number of cases, are causing. As I said, I have no problems with the ones on a humanitarian mission - their actions speak for themselves. The ones who pull the "convert and you'll eat" type of scenario, OTOH, should be dealt with severely.

You know, RTK's right; it's not a conspiracy, it's a problem with "free riders" - people who take advantage of a situation that they contributed nothing to.

That's why I like you, Marc. You point out the double entendres in my sarcasm.

I agree. Those who are in either country and present the "I'll give you food if you follow Christ" argument need their heads examined.

I remember the kid in Tal Afar Cavguy was talking about. I did not give him that shirt.

[marct]

Hi RTK,

I agree. Those who are in either country and present the "I'll give you food if you follow Christ" argument need their heads examined.

Preferably with a cricket bat at high velocity ! Okay, my prejudice is really showing here, but that type of sleazy action really makes my blood boil. Then again, I've had run-ins with this type of slug too many times and had to deal with the aftermath of their "Christian charity". They are a disgrace to their religion and have done more to damage Christianity than any other group I can think of.

Sorry, this is a real soap-box issue for me. I spent about 4 years counselling kids whose lives had been destroyed by people like this, and dealing with suicidal teens who have been beaten and abused in the name of "religion" and "morality" still makes my blood boil even now .

[/rant}

Marc

[Tom Odom]

Hi RTK,



Preferably with a cricket bat at high velocity ! Okay, my prejudice is really showing here, but that type of sleazy action really makes my blood boil. Then again, I've had run-ins with this type of slug too many times and had to deal with the aftermath of their "Christian charity". They are a disgrace to their religion and have done more to damage Christianity than any other group I can think of.

Sorry, this is a real soap-box issue for me. I spent about 4 years counselling kids whose lives had been destroyed by people like this, and dealing with suicidal teens who have been beaten and abused in the name of "religion" and "morality" still makes my blood boil even now .

[/rant}

Marc

As a veteran observer of 700 Club shenanigans in Lebanon and the Congo, the other victims in this are those who get bamboozled into supporting this stuff as a passport to the promised land. I feel much the same about the Christian Children's Orphonage operation as shown on TV by the well-fed grandpa figure holding up the underpriveleged child. We had a CC orphanage in southern Lebanon; they were warned repeatedly to leave and did not. Their director went home the hard way.

[marct]

Hi Tom,

As a veteran observer of 700 Club shenanigans in Lebanon and the Congo, the other victims in this are those who get bamboozled into supporting this stuff as a passport to the promised land.

Too true! I remember one friend of mine who got caught up in one of the sleazier Christian cults and, to his sorrow, learned the hard way that the cult leader was only out to aggrandize himself. The damage to his psyche was considerable and his anger at both himself and the people who conned him was, at times, scary to behold. 'twas a good thing he liked beer and Irish songs since I could get him to relieve his pent-up emotions by getting drink and singing . Re-building his faith, OTOH, was not so simple.

[Ron Humphrey]

It would seem to me that Faith in and of itself is very much a personal decision and as such faith really should stand on it's own without need for major input from outside interests. That said I think it important that any group be willing to help others in need when it comes to food, shelter, clothes, and economic / educational opportunities for further growth over time.

I will agree with most here that those who take this aid to the next level in requiring something in return or threatening something (or else) very quickly outstay their welcome. I believe for me the most important thing is that all those who choose to spread their faith in such a manner rather than letting their actions, and lives speak for them should be accountable to this standard.

Any one care to go over the number of religiously oriented groups who actively work under this premise right now. Pluralistic societies should at their baseline allow for those within them to know the truth (for themselves) and live to lead by example. The part which really boggles me is which societies feel it is so important to disallow even exposure to other faiths for fear of (??)

If you feel you must defend your faith by forcing it on others then I would say you may be missing some of the necessary elements of belief for yourself.

After all doesn't matter if your of Christian, Jewish, or Islamic faiths I think they all still purport that we were given the ability to choose between right and wrong from day one.

[Sarajevo071]

Sarajevo, you are absolutely correct in pointing out the problems these people can, and in a number of cases, are causing. As I said, I have no problems with the ones on a humanitarian mission - their actions speak for themselves. The ones who pull the "convert and you'll eat" type of scenario, OTOH, should be dealt with severely.

You know, RTK's right; it's not a conspiracy, it's a problem with "free riders" - people who take advantage of a situation that they contributed nothing to.

I never said that I see this like the organized US/Christian conspiracy but I do agree that there are groups who is solely purpose to go there and preach... Nothing else. And they use food like weapon to convert poor and hungry. That's sad. I was on one end of that and I know feeling of anger after it.

I posted those articles so one can see different stories and reactions on actions like that.