Expanding the Role of the Foreign Area Officer

[Old Eagle]

I don't believe that "training" should be consolidated, in fact, I don't think it can be. Certainly, if you continue ICT, then everyone can't go to the same country.

I also think that the Services should use a wide variety of the very best grad schools, and not try to cookie cutter everyone's education at only one central location.

Language -- your call.

Yes, the COL Wilhelm story is pretty representative of what a lot of us have done. I invite John T and Tom to amaze us with tales of the developing world. Stan, too, of course, just not about any of our escapades.

[Stan]

Now Stan would agree with that one!

Train FAOs

Generally DAS and SAO SNCOs will break the young FAOs into submission, then you're off to a cushy assignment in Sub-Sahara (with the same Sierra and snappy NCO)

Language -- your call.

Stan, too, of course, just not about any of our escapades.

I'd have to say that nearly every FAO in both Africa and here would never have been remotely as successful without the benefit of language training. Ants Teetsov (the old fart is still alive, but now on half day schedules at the MOD) still talks about you and your great German language abilities. Where would you have gone without additional languages ? Well, there is your shinning face and pesky demeanor to go with

[Old Eagle]

You're right about my non-existant Estonian. I did manage to use my Finnish, however, but not with many Stones. Older gen tended to German (my strong suit) and younger ones to English (still a challenge).

I thought Teetsov died a coupla years ago. That's what one of the Swiss reported. Gotta watch my sources.

You haven't lived until you've sat in Ants' apt, eating little fishy sandwiches and swilling vodka. One of my prissier bosses told me on the way to my first encounter there, that he wasn't going to eat any "disgusting little fish." Clearly not a FAO. To this day I am sure that the vodka killed anything I may have ingested. HELLO!!!

[Cavguy]

Two combat company commander friends of mine went FAO - both as Russian FAO's beginning in late 2004.

First they went to DLI for Russian for a year, and then to Garmish (Marshall Center) to do a "walkabout" type thing for a year in Russia/East Europe. Now they're both going back Grad school (both to Ivy League schools) for two years. I'm sure there was some FAO courses in there as well. Following Grad school they'll be out in the force.

[Stan]

You haven't lived until you've sat in Ants' apt, eating little fishy sandwiches and swilling vodka. One of my prissier bosses told me on the way to my first encounter there, that he wasn't going to eat any "disgusting little fish." Clearly not a FAO. To this day I am sure that the vodka killed anything I may have ingested. HELLO!!!

I've got an old B&W that Ants shot... there were better days after that relatively cheap vodka and those RAW (smoked) fish burgers with a slice of boiled egg on top

I recall SF types cheesing around Eastern Estonia on *ahem* immersion training. The Ambo caught wind of that and told the unit they could go to Russia to immerse, or, get out. They left to learn Russian in CONUS

Albeit amusing, I think the Ambo, armed with but the English language, neglected to fully comprehend the current need for Russian speakers in the Armed Forces today. Wish I could check back with the old buzzard and see what he now thinks (about our lack of adequate foreign language capabilities).

[Old Eagle]

I was there for the Russian debacle. They weren't SF, they were MI. No country or theater clearance. (Not a good start.) Somebody (I thought it was you) busted them at George Browne's. Ambo's point was that he would welcome anyone coming to country to learn Estonian, but not Russian. It gave the impression that the USG believed that EE was still part of the Soviet Union. Frankly, I was on the Ambo's side. The sending unit had ample opportunity to make good w/Ambo, but elected not to do it. At the time, St. Pete was equally open as Tallinn, w/o the political baggage.

[Tom Odom]

I don't believe that "training" should be consolidated, in fact, I don't think it can be. Certainly, if you continue ICT, then everyone can't go to the same country.

I also think that the Services should use a wide variety of the very best grad schools, and not try to cookie cutter everyone's education at only one central location.

Language -- your call.

Yes, the COL Wilhelm story is pretty representative of what a lot of us have done. I invite John T and Tom to amaze us with tales of the developing world. Stan, too, of course, just not about any of our escapades.

I only amaze myself and embarrass Stan..or maybe the reverse...or was that amuse Stan and embarras the US?

Developing does not describe the Congo---better to use diminishing or devolving because progress does not apply to Kin La Belle et le Congo.

Agree also on the diverse schools. I went to NPS on the Top 5% program (fooled 'em) when funds were tight under Jimmy the Peanut. NPS turned out to be a great school but going to grad school in more lefi-wing settings has its own charm

Fish burgers with sliced egg? Try the feces fed grubs scorched on a hot oil drum lid. Now that's adventure.

[Old Eagle]

Yeah, my boss, a mideast guy says that the C in 48C stands for champagne FAO. Guess I resemble that remark.

[Stan]

I was there for the Russian debacle. They weren't SF, they were MI. No country or theater clearance. (Not a good start.) Somebody (I thought it was you) busted them at George Browne's. Ambo's point was that he would welcome anyone coming to country to learn Estonian, but not Russian. It gave the impression that the USG believed that EE was still part of the Soviet Union. Frankly, I was on the Ambo's side. The sending unit had ample opportunity to make good w/Ambo, but elected not to do it. At the time, St. Pete was equally open as Tallinn, w/o the political baggage.

Affirmative; it was me that first spotted them in Old Town and I agreed with the principle reasons for their removal (lack of CC, etc.). As far as USA impressions go, we've got so many of those Jehovah's Witnesses running around in black suits speaking (err, learning) Russian in Tallinn, that I have to wonder who ultimately controls these freaks of nature abroad, and do we seriously concern ourselves with sending the wrong message. Adds a whole new meaning to Ugly American. Bilateral Affairs (stepchild to the Mil-to-Mil with far less cash) has so many programs running now, that finding a Soldier in Tallinn is child's play. Those that do make an effort to communicate, still try Russian first before switching to English.

I only amaze myself and embarrass Stan..or maybe the reverse...or was that amuse Stan and embarras the US?

Developing does not describe the Congo---better to use diminishing or devolving because progress does not apply to Kin La Belle et le Congo.

Agree also on the diverse schools. I went to NPS on the Top 5% program (fooled 'em) when funds were tight under Jimmy the Peanut. NPS turned out to be a great school but going to grad school in more lefi-wing settings has its own charm

Fish burgers with sliced egg? Try the feces fed grubs scorched on a hot oil drum lid. Now that's adventure.

I think you deep down were trying to amuse me. The Belg described Zaire as Malfunction Junction.

Hmmm, grubs in hot oil (there's no emoticon to convey puking)... Ranger, I told you not to eat those things cooked in front of the Embassy. The thought of our drivers showing up in the AM having had a few grubs on their breathe just made my day

[Tom Odom]

Yeah, my boss, a mideast guy says that the C in 48C stands for champagne FAO. Guess I resemble that remark.

All that changed in my mind when Yugoslavia fell apart. Suddenly the European FAOs around the Pentagon and DC in general got a new meaning in their lives.


Stan, we did have our laughs so I guess I succeeded. I still chuckle at the thought of Yigal raiding those UNHCR trucks to swipe a UN flag outside our favorite eatery on Lake Kivu.

Best

Tom

[Old Eagle]

Funny you should mention one of my old stomping grounds.

As it turns out -- hey Ali pay attention -- at the height of the various live fire exercises in YU, the Army managed to eliminate 3 of the best regional experts it owned by passing them over.

I recounted this episode in an article I wrote for the FAOA Journal a hundred years ago: I was walking out of the 5-sided nuthouse with a GO neighbor of mine enroute to the parking lot. On the way, he greeted a Yugo FAO I knew from a previous incarnation. He then mentioned that the FAO had worked for him on the Joint Staff and was one of the critical members of the SEEur team -- spoke Serbo-Croation, knew all about how ethnic groups interacted, had contacts in the region, etc -- absolutely brilliant. As almost a throwaway, I told the general that I hoped that he had "top blocked" the officer. No, the gen replied, "he's only a FAO and I needed to save my top blocks for some of the combat arms officers who wanted to command bns." By the time I returned to DC the next time, the officer had been passed over twice to LTC and was on his way out, right in the middle of the major US interventions. Guess we showed him!

[Ken White]

my frothing rants at the personnel system, HRC and Generals and their priorities. I refuse to be baited, I'll just go quiet quietly drunk and exude silent wrath...

Contemplating on how well -- or how poorly -- the Army can reinvent wheels -- and the old saw that continuing to do the same thing hoping for a different result is insanity.

I wonder if your neighbor ever considered the fact that not necessarily everyone who wants to command a Bn should do so...

[Tom Odom]

my frothing rants at the personnel system, HRC and Generals and their priorities. I refuse to be baited, I'll just go quiet quietly drunk and exude silent wrath...

Contemplating on how well -- or how poorly -- the Army can reinvent wheels -- and the old saw that continuing to do the same thing hoping for a different result is insanity.

I wonder if your neighbor ever considered the fact that not necessarily everyone who wants to command a Bn should do so...

As I have said on here before, one of the common sense tests the Army still fails miserably is selection for resident War College. FAOs are the only element in the Army that deal with strategic issues as centerpiece to their existence. The War College is there trying to expand the mindset of selected officers with regards to strategy and its role--hopefully--driving operational and tactical levels of war. But FAOs do not get selected for resident War College; the best you could hope for (at least when I was in the zone) was non-resident. I suspect that any FAO who did make it did so as a dual tracker who commanded a battalion. As for GO top blocks, the DCSOPS then LTG Peay top blocked me on a special and I have no doubt that rating was important to reaching O5. It did not get me to resident War College.

Which brings up another subject--My experience with FAOs was they tended to eat their own. I had one try and make a snack out of me early on and I know that he did so to several other FAOs. He was a DATT 6 times who never mentored and always looked for chicken caca. In my case it was a coffee cup that I forgot to clean and my "failure" to keep tabs on Sudanese Army buddies after I had graduated from their junior CGSC (CAS3). In this case, he was both my rater and my senior rater--waived and approvedby personnel command. So he gave me a "2" on the front of my OER as rater and then top blocked me on the back as senior rater. Then lost the OER; I ended up giving personnel command a zerox copy rather than have a one year gap in my record.

Another senior FAO--in fact the last Africa bureau chief of DHS/DAS--used another FAO's first name on my 1st rating as the DATT in Zaire. The othr guy has the same name and we both were qualified as 48Gs. Plus we both had worked with this guy before. Still I believe--color me old fashioned--you should be able to get the first name correct of someone you are rating.

So it ain't just the GOs preserving future battalion commanders; it is us as well.

Best

Tom

[Ken White]

Friend of mine some years ago was setting off to Benning for OBC, his Retired Colonel father gave him only one bit of advice for the impending career; "Be good but not too good -- if you're too good, your peers and raters will kill you because you're a threat."

That is really, really sad.

A system that breeds that and is known to do so should not be tolerated and should be dismantled -- instead, we refine it...

[Rex Brynen]

Still I believe--color me old fashioned--you should be able to get the first name correct of someone you are rating.

Absolutely, Bert. Great post!

[Tom Odom]

Absolutely, Bert. Great post!

Thanks, Ralph!

[Tom Odom]

Absolutely, Bert. Great post!

PS, Ralph

I thought you would get a kick out the fact that the same guy who as Chief of the Africa Bureau of the Attache System got my name wrong as DATT wanted to close the station in late 1993 when he learned that the Zairians were refusing to accredit me. Keep in mind that we had a war going on across the river in Brazza, one in Angola, one in Rwanda, and Zaire itself had had 2 large scale military mutinies in 3 years. Had he closed us, there would have been no station for the Goma crisis and what became the African World War in the next three years.

I got to talk to the Director DHS MG Jack Leide and convinced him that Zaire should stay on the books--that I could operate between the cracks of diplomacy and still get the job done.

Bert

[Ron Humphrey]

In reading through the descriptions and focus of FAO doesn't this seem like somewhat of an IO generalist occupation moved to the next step of greater regional understanding through further ed and language specialization.

In other words would this be somewhat of a good career track progression for for 30's?

[Tom Odom]

In reading through the descriptions and focus of FAO doesn't this seem like somewhat of an IO generalist occupation moved to the next step of greater regional understanding through further ed and language specialization.

In other words would this be somewhat of a good career track progression for for 30's?

I am not sure what you are asking. As a 48--especially as a 48J on the ground in Africa--I was initimately involved in what would later be described as IO. Indeed I got on the phone to the Joint Staff from Goma when Radio Television Milles Collines was still broadcasting saying that we were losing the information war. I was also involved in advising the UN on demining awareness and used that work when setting up the US-Rwandan Demining office. Certainly IO considerations had great weight when we crafted a campaign plan for Rwanda.

Could I have used an IO officer? Perhaps. I did use PSYOP as part of the demining effort. And I saw first hand how an NGO doing mine awareness got it wrong with the new government.

Would a 30-series officer with some regional specialization and language be useful? Again, perhaps as long as there was a FAO watching and mentoring. I say that because I did just that with the PSYOP team and the SF teams that I had. They were somewhat regionally specialized and had some language skills. Most did very well. Some however went so far astray that they nearly derailed the demining program.

I guess my bottom line is that a generalist in IO would be better served to compliment the regional and pol-mil skills of the FAO. Doin a 2-fer would be like marrying first cousins; the results might be OK but then again they might not.

Tom

[Ron Humphrey]

I am not sure what you are asking. As a 48--especially as a 48J on the ground in Africa--I was initimately involved in what would later be described as IO. Indeed I got on the phone to the Joint Staff from Goma when Radio Television Milles Collines was still broadcasting saying that we were losing the information war. I was also involved in advising the UN on demining awareness and used that work when setting up the US-Rwandan Demining office. Certainly IO considerations had great weight when we crafted a campaign plan for Rwanda.

Could I have used an IO officer? Perhaps. I did use PSYOP as part of the demining effort. And I saw first hand how an NGO doing mine awareness got it wrong with the new government.

Would a 30-series officer with some regional specialization and language be useful? Again, perhaps as long as there was a FAO watching and mentoring. I say that because I did just that with the PSYOP team and the SF teams that I had. They were somewhat regionally specialized and had some language skills. Most did very well. Some however went so far astray that they nearly derailed the demining program.

I guess my bottom line is that a generalist in IO would be better served to compliment the regional and pol-mil skills of the FAO. Doin a 2-fer would be like marrying first cousins; the results might be OK but then again they might not.

Tom

As you have just pointed out it seems like what an FAO does is IO+ or in otherwords might be one way of understanding where the IO officer fits in this sense.

To the layman such as myself it is sometimes difficult to place the actual role of the 30 but in thinking along the lines of an IO as the jack of all trades master of none and the FAO as the next evolution jack of all trades and master of several it at least paints somewhat of a more coherent picture.

OR I could be comparing apples and SPACESHIPS