|
||||||||
|
||||||||
| Trigger Puller Boots on the ground, steel on target -- the pointy end of the spear. |
![]() |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
|
#41 |
|
Council Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 72
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#42 | |
|
Council Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Camp Lagoon
Posts: 53
|
Here is an older article that addresses the problem as well. This one is from the JRTC perspective. I love the quote at the beginning, which is from the fighting in Aachen in Sept 1944:
Quote:
Last edited by VMI_Marine; 08-06-2008 at 11:51 PM. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
#43 |
|
Council Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,438
|
I no longer have AKO access, so I could not read the article, but I read the comments and agree with most regarding the train how to think versus what to think and the use of BD 6 as a training tool.
The biggest downside that I have seen when some units conduct MOUT training is that they act as though they are doing something completely different from non-MOUT training. I have had to emphasize to numerous junior leaders that the complement to MOUT is MOT. The former is urban and the latter is not. (That rhymes). You're still maneuvering over terrain. It just happens to be urban terrain. They tended to get too focused on the stack and room clearing and start losing sight of the fact that they were maneuvering across terrain, often forgetting everything that they've ever learned about IMT, tactical movement as a member of a fire team, and the basics of suppressive fire and bounding. They don't forget that stuff when clearing a bunker, but seem to forget it when it comes to clearing a room. For me, that was always the red flag that told me that the leaders were not getting it. I guess my point is that BD 6 is a useful training tool, but that a significant number of leaders do not realize that it is a tool. They see it as some magical collective task that will make their units lethal. For example, one of the last live fire exercises that my unit did prior to OIF III was a "shoothouse" exercise that consisted of nothing more than 4 guys stacking outside of the room, entering, engaging targets while moving to their points of domination, declaring the room clear, then clearing their weapons and walking out. It never progressed to the squad level or beyond. That was partly due to absurd range restrictions, but largely due to a fundamental misunderstanding of the value and purpose of the drill. Clearing the room, while dangerous and crap-your-pants scary, is the easy part. Fortunately, I saw dramatic improvement after they got some OJT in OIF. And by "improvement" I mean that clearing rooms largely amounted to verifying that the enemy had been killed by the SBF as the assault element entered the building.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#44 |
|
Council Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Florida
Posts: 8,058
|
over and over sets up an easily exploited pattern. I always appreciated it when the evil enema displayed patterns in their futile attempts to shorten my days...
|
|
|
|
|
|
#45 | |
|
Council Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Olympia WA
Posts: 531
|
Quote:
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#46 | |
|
Council Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The State of Partachia, at the eastern end of the Mediterranean
Posts: 3,947
|
Quote:
__________________
Infinity Journal "I don't care if this works in practice. I want to see it work in theory!" ![]() - The job of the British Army out here is to kill or capture Communist Terrorists in Malaya. - If we can double the ratio of kills per contact, we will soon put an end to the shooting in Malaya. Sir Gerald Templer, foreword to the "Conduct of Anti-Terrorist Operations in Malaya," 1958 Edition |
|
|
|
|
|
|
#47 | |
|
Council Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Posts: 1,122
|
I read the BD 6 article too late - and it cost me. When I was a CO CDR I decided to enter and clear a house, which resulted in one of my SSG's KIA. He later received the Silver Star, posthumously.
For the story, read this article from the March issue of ARMY magazine below, compiled by the CompanyCommand.mil Team at West Point. I'm the B/2-37 AR vignette. Quote:
__________________
Who is Cavguy? Last edited by Cavguy; 08-07-2008 at 06:20 AM. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
#48 |
|
Council Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Montreal
Posts: 1,568
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#49 | |
|
Council Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 1,173
|
Neil, thanks for the example. Don't second guess yourself, s*** happens in combat. At least you made a decision.
As Ken said, Quote:
For a time, we mastered the art of battle drill six. We lived by the mantra that "slow is smooth and smooth is fast." My teams could flow through a town seamlessly. During clearance operations in the DRV, I chose an abandoned home to strong point. To date, we had cleared over 400 homes. Given the location and vantage point, it was key terrain. The location seemed ideal. It was all too inviting. Unfortunately, the enemy identified it as well. After we secured the house, I had a platoon inside establishing our defense and a platoon outside consolidating. Still something felt odd about the house. In the past 48 hours, we had lost 4 paratroopers to a suicide bomber and discovered an EFP production facility. An alert NCO continued to search discovering a wire hidden under a rug leading to a hidden basement. Inside the basement, the receiver flashed connected to over 1000lbs of explosives. Thankfully, the det cord was flawed. I would have lost at least 15 soldiers. Another unit was not so lucky and lost 10 soldiers. Afterwards, we adopted the crawl approach to clearing. There is no golden egg with TTPs in sustained COIN. BD6 is not a thing of the past. The key is to be erratic, innovative, and decisive. Sometimes you storm the house; sometimes you call TPTs for surrender; sometimes you blow the house up. As long as you are anything but predictable. We mastered a similar TTP for driving- always change the tempo. Sometimes we bounded; sometimes we sped; sometimes we crawled. In any case, the enemy was perplexed and the casualty rate decreased. v/r Mike |
|
|
|
|
|
|
#50 |
|
Council Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: DeRidder LA
Posts: 3,949
|
Neil,
Virtually the same scenario is what prompted the writing of Nightmare on Wazir Street using Duffer's Drift. Tom |
|
|
|
|
|
#51 | |
|
Council Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Wonderland
Posts: 1,265
|
Quote:
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#52 |
|
Council Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: DeRidder LA
Posts: 3,949
|
Gents,
I am lookig at updating Handbook 03-04 the Small Unit Leaders Guide to Urban Operations in the next year. I have asked on of the OC divisions to take it on. But I would love to get direct input from the field. Vignettes are great, especially if tied to TTPs. If you have something send me a PM and I will send an email address. Best Tom |
|
|
|
|
|
#53 | |
|
Council Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Camp Lagoon
Posts: 53
|
Lt Ackerman's article Relearning Stormtroop Tactics talks about isolating strong points and reducing them with supporting assets:
Quote:
Mike and Neil, thanks for sharing your experiences. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
#54 | |
|
Council Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 568
|
Quote:
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#55 | |
|
Council Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: DeRidder LA
Posts: 3,949
|
Quote:
![]() Seriously, the key phrase in this discussion remains METT-T. Everything else is but a guideline to consider. I can tell you we have seen "stacks" running down streets as units wrongly applied CQB ttps to movement. Very little in my business begins with the phrase "Thou shalt not..." Tom |
|
|
|
|
|
|
#56 |
|
Council Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 1,173
|
I'm reflecting this weekend...
On the Job with Operation Minotaur This segment was done 72 hours prior to us discovering the rigged house. As for the reporting, we considered her a "one-night stand" reporter. She shows up, indulges you, and leaves never considering a long-term relationship. This NPR segment cost me a Senate Armed Forces investigation so I'll put it into the appropriate context... 1. We did not torture anyone...Jamie states the detainees were interviewed out of view. While accurate, it is misportrayed. We handed over the detainees to the MPs. 2. "Let's get Rocky and beat these guys up." Rocky is a 110lbs kurdish iraqi. On patrols, he would scream, "STOP!!!" We'd immediately halt our convoy assuming that he identified an IED or ambush. Instead, he would be concerned with a dog being run over...During an interrogation, Rocky's emotional intelligence disarmed detainees in a way that often provided accurate intelligence. 3. As per my earlier post, we found the rigged house days later. For additional context, we were penetrating into the denied areas of the Islamic State of Iraq. Moreover, for security reasons, we conducted a major deception operation with the media, Iraqi government, and Iraqi populace. Unfortunately, NPR choose not to leave before understanding the entire operation. What she failed to document was that we bypassed over 100 deep-buried IEDs and secured an area devestated with sectarian violence, genocide, and terrorist training camps pushing fighters to baqubah, baghdad, and possibly Saudi Arabia. I suppose those are minor sound bites within the grand scheme of things. After she left, I felt bad for the curfew that I enforced on the populace. I lifted it to allow them to grab food, water, and electricity....Hours later, four of my soldiers were killed by a suicide bomber. I never made that mistake again. I still had to write the letters to the families of my fallen. v/r Mike |
|
|
|
|
|
#57 |
|
Council Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Denver on occasion
Posts: 1,823
|
If I had listened to that broadcast when it was originally aired, I would have thought it was a measured report of the situation as it was. The foreign accent and sober delivery would have had me fooled. She did not do your soldiers justice.
You mentioned in the broadcast, perceptions of impunity. That is also a problem for law enforcement here in the States as Slap can probably attest. Hard, bad men (or often boys, juvys get away with a lot) get back into the town with vastly increased confidence and their neighbors wonder if the cops can really do anything. I read this problem was particularly bad in New Orleans. If it is of any interest, in the state I was in, going into houses wasn't done much. The suspects were gassed out or talked out. This even extended to cell extractions at the state pen. We practiced cell extractions in training, mostly because it was fun. We even did one once at a county jail. But in the big prisons, they just pumped in the gas until the prisoner agreed to come out. Not very dramatic but safer for all.
__________________
"We fight, get beat, rise, and fight again." Gen. Nathanael Greene |
|
|
|
|
|
#58 |
|
Council Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: SOCAL
Posts: 1,943
|
I need this article again, but my AKO is acting squirrely and I doubt I'll get to rectifying the problem easily. Could someone pinch a copy for me? I need to get this and some good commentary from another site out to the coy cmdrs.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#59 |
|
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2
|
There is a time and a place for surgical, precision and hi-intensity MOUT. I have freely transitioned between the three, sometimes on the same day doing all three, depending on METT-TC.
While some units are enamored of "the one way" and hone their skills to be perfect at one skill set, I will settle for "good enough" at a wide range of skills which will allow the tactical flexibility to prosecute targets in a variety of ways. The ROE is usually THE definitive variable on what is allowed, which has the unintended effect of causing escalation with regards to a situation. If others find themselves in that situation, then the transition from precision (or surgical) MOUT to hi-intensity must be trained on or else they will quickly find themselves out of their depth when that situation arises. With regard to the enemy, here is a little personal vignette: We were doing some training with a LE SWAT team (a double booked range...what are the odds!) and we watched them, and they watched us. Eventually, we started to compete, as we are wont to do... Long story short, they attacked we defended (10 on 10) and we defended like we were taught. Concertina in the stairs, crew served covering the avenues of approach, etc. We won. Crew served weapons vs. SWAT = dead SWAT. They defended, we attacked. We attacked hi-intensity (using a borrowed M-113 as cover) and using "bait" to troll for shots... Again, we won. There was some good natured discussion afterwards (after a full day of fun, including one night iteration) which basically boiled down to "don't attack a well defended position with SWAT tactics" SWAT stuff is nifty and a very acceptable TTP IF certain other criteria are met. Simply doing it because that is the only thing you know is the wrong answer. -STS Last edited by sladethesniper; 09-27-2009 at 09:13 PM. |
|
|
|
|
|
#60 | |
|
Council Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Upper Michigan
Posts: 3,583
|
what you are driving at with this:
Quote:
![]() Or attach a Powerpoint ![]() Best Mike PS: welcome to the shop.
__________________
JMM When I quit learning, I'll be dead. Crabtree's Bludgeon (updated) - No set of mutually inconsistent observations can exist for which some human intellect cannot conceive a coherent explanation, however complicated and implausible - credits: R.V. Jones & Hayden Peake. |
|
|
|
|
![]() |
| Bookmarks |
| Thread Tools | |
| Display Modes | |
|
|