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| View Poll Results: Looking up or Not? | |||
| Yes, the corner has been turned and progress will continue. |
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11 | 84.62% |
| No, the fragile peace will deteriorate into factional bloodshed. |
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2 | 15.38% |
| Voters: 13. You may not vote on this poll | |||
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#1 | ||
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Small Wars Journal
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Virginia
Posts: 3,956
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Quote:
Quote:
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Small Wars Journal |
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#2 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: SOCAL
Posts: 1,940
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I didn't vote because my perfect choice, "we have turned the corner but the tide could change in the blink of an eye" was not available.
I think both sides have equally valid, and supportable, points. I am witness to it every day...the violence is down, and in fact I started to liken my current rotation to a tour in Somalia a while back. Those who would return to the goals and aims of the FRLs and nationalists could be easily prodded to do so if we do not continue to have measurable success that benefits everyone, not just the Shia majority. |
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#3 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 1,173
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But, we've learned the hard way that hope is not a method. For now, I'm still pessimistic.
Mike |
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#4 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,844
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This is one situation where complexity theory definitely has a role, and in my opinion the number of variables that could influence the answer is unknowalbe.
The coalition and Iraqi security forces have made remarkable progress in many areas of Iraq, but ability to maintain progress will be influenced by: 1. Numerous local ethnic leaders 2. The economy 3. The ability of the coalition to maintain sufficient political will at home (go back to number 2 as a factor on this one, another one is competitng security priorities like Afghanistan) 4. Regional actors, Iran, Syria, Turkey, Saudi, Jordan, etc. 5. Global actors, UN, Russia, China, (major actors not currently in the coalition) Along with several other variables the list about will be major contributers to what the Iraq situation will look like in the coming months. I don't think anyone has a crystal ball that can accurately predict where we'll be a year from now (not the Iraqis, not AQ, not the coalition, etc.). We're doing good, perhaps very well, and I think that applies not only to our military efforts, but to our diplomatic efforts as well in the region and globally.. Like MikeF posted, hope is not a method, but I am now comfortably neutral (not optimistic or pessimistic), which is quite an improvement from my views a year or more ago. God help me, I sound like I'm morphing into a politician, what the heck is neutral?
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#5 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 568
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It depends on what you mean by looking up.
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#6 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,438
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I can't tell. It used to be front and center in the news everyday. Now it's just a buried tidbit every other day or so.
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#7 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Rocky Mtn Empire
Posts: 471
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...is the correct answer to the question. We should have better clarity on the exact outcome of our efforts in Iraq in 30-40 years.
![]() These two articles are fairly balanced. What irks me are those who try to reduce the situation in Iraq to an oversimplified soundbite, usually (but not always) for political purposes. The situation is extremely complex, and changes every day. I will also reiterate that the external force in a COIN situation cannot "win" the conflict, it can only set the conditions to enable the host nation to "win". If the HN squanders the opportunities presented, no amount of surges, awakenings, perseverance, or anything else can create success. 30-40 years. |
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#8 |
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Council Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Florida
Posts: 8,058
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for some time. Upturn for the better in 2008, roughly tranquil IAW mideast norms by 2013, marginal rule of law by 2018, functional nation IAW world (NOT western) norms by 2033...
I can go with 30-40.
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#9 | ||
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Council Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Kansas
Posts: 1,097
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Quote:
![]() For me realism always leaves room for both pessimism and optimism
__________________
Quote:
Cogitationis poenam nemo patitur |
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#10 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Posts: 1,120
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I didn't vote. Honestly, I don't know how it will end - I have hope but I have long felt that too much water has gone under the bridge in Iraq for it to function as a strong centralized state. I hope I am wrong though. My gut tells me that when we withdraw someone will stoke the sectarian war again, and it will be ugly.
I guess that makes me a pessimist on Iraq, which may surprise some.
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Who is Cavguy? |
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#11 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Fort Stewart
Posts: 222
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Filkins has been there a long time and seen a lot of changes. I worked with him back in 2004 and he has a good head on his shoulder. That being said, I'm not sure he fully appreciates just how fast all the gains we made can disappear. Tough call to vote. Trying to be the optimist, I voted for turning the corner.
Then again, I've been wrong before....
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"But the bravest are surely those who have the clearest vision of what is before them, glory and danger alike, and yet withstanding, go out to meet it." -Thucydides |
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#12 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: DeRidder LA
Posts: 3,949
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Like Jon and Niel, I am of the mind that where it goes is as yet unseen. The real issue as Ken alludes to it is where we go, meaning how long we stay and how we attempt to do that. I use the word attempt because we will vote on that and so will the Iraqis.
I too would add an option that says we are near a crossroads but not ready to make a turn. Tom |
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#13 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Fort Stewart
Posts: 222
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In honor of the closing of Yankee Stadium, I'll use a Yogi Berra quote for this thread:
"When you come to a fork in the road, take it." I think Yogi understands COIN.
__________________
"But the bravest are surely those who have the clearest vision of what is before them, glory and danger alike, and yet withstanding, go out to meet it." -Thucydides |
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