shloky, reply sent via email.
david, I will look into that. Thank you.
shloky, reply sent via email.
david, I will look into that. Thank you.
Posting this into Amazon
seems to generate some "hits" (via the "If you like this, you might also like" feature):
Lifeblood of War: Logistics in Armed Conflict (Paperback)
http://www.amazon.com/Lifeblood-War-.../dp/0080417760
Thanks
Jeff
I said that I would come back with resources as I gathered them. So here I will begin to add some in case anyone would like to look into this as well.
Department of Defense Energy Strategy. Teaching an Old Dog New Tricks.
DoD Energy Security Task Force.
More Capable Warfighting Through Reduced Fuel Burden.
More Fight - Less Fuel.
And perhaps the most interesting piece, from a visceral level:
Army Energy Security "The Way Ahead"
It contains a note with the following information:
Fuel deliveries to FOBs in millions of gallons: 431
Fuel trucks needed: 140,075
Convoys needed: 9,332
Soldiers per convoy: 120
Soldier trips: 644,360
Soldier trip reduction per 1% JP8 savings: 6444
As you can see, reducing consumption has operational benefits, not including the fact that some 50% of fuel used in theater is used to move fuel in theater. This means that end use (FOB generators and tactical vehicle) fuel savings are multiplied as the second and third order effects reduce the logistical burden across the military.
Or perhaps the FOBs could make do with fewer deliveries of Doritos, Baskin Robbins, and condoms. I'm glad that I never had to order my Soldiers to risk their lives in order to ensure that some FOB got it's daily delivery of candy bars and Maxim magazines. Could we consolidate into fewer convoys (and thus run fewer convoy security missions) if we did away with non-essentials?Originally Posted by SethB
Scmedlap, I'm not in the Army (yet) but some of the stories I hear sound rather absurd to me. Units throwing good equipment away so they don't have to take it back while others run the roads to bring things in. Big screen TVs, of course running on electricity that comes from diesel that was run across the roads, again. Units dumping diesel in the desert.
In fact, last I saw 1% of all cargo shipped in OEF was lost to enemy action. Doesn't sound like much, but it adds up quick.
But I'll start with something that's a little easier to count. Even though for a long time (I don't know about now) 30% of all cargo carried was bottled water.
Heh, Well if that means you wiil be at a later date
Allow me to welcome you on your transition from the absurd to the sublime...Wait until you're told to destroy some seemingly important or expensive stuff because it's cheaper to do that than it is to ship it back to the States. That's pretty much guaranteed to happen...Units throwing good equipment away so they don't have to take it back...
All true and all dedicated to ensure that Joe lives as well overseas (or better) that he does at home.... while others run the roads to bring things in. Big screen TVs, of course running on electricity that comes from diesel that was run across the roads, again. Units dumping diesel in the desert.
As sapperfitz82 said on another thread:Sounds right to me...""Quite simply, the standard of living at war has never been better, the tours have never been shorter (for this duration a war) and we are still saying “not good enough?” We need a history lesson and the Indian wars of the sub-continent and the American west are in order.""
Back to you:That's due in large part to the fact that its cheaper and easier to transport than bulk water -- and to the fact that bulk water in COIN operations frequently is made, er, ummm -- unwholesome is a good word -- by the bad guys when they can get to it -- which is usually. Fortunately, the Germans have found the way ahead LINK.But I'll start with something that's a little easier to count. Even though for a long time (I don't know about now) 30% of all cargo carried was bottled water.
Worse yet, units are ordered to bring equipment that they have no use for. This was a particularly sore spot for me when I was a company XO. I was ordered to bring the equivalent of half a connex of heavy equipment that we had no use for. I argued it endlessly with my BN XO, going so far as to accuse him of being part of the AIF and deliberately trying to weigh us down with unnecessary garbage (perhaps I went too far with that accusation). But it was absurd. The stuff was transported at great cost (fuel, man hours, random aggravations), stored in a tiny patrol base where space was limited, maintained IAW various TMDE rules (often needing to be sent to a FOB), and accounted for with every sensitive item inventory and/or 10% inventory as appropriate (more wasted man hours). It was incredibly stupid. (But it was on our MTOE! Apparently that makes it important - nevermind that we don't use port firing weapons or TVS-5's).
Bottled water makes a lot of sense. It is a huge timesaver for the guy at the end of the spear, great for sanitation purposes, and even the empty bottles have numerous uses. When we take detainees, part of the fulfillment of our obligations regarding their treatment is to give them a bottle of water - very simple - and we can also hand them out to civilians when appropriate. The only downside to bottled water is that certain folks who are dead set on doing things "the way that it's always been" seem to be nostalgic for filling canteens from a water buffalo. But we can reduce the amount of water needed if leaders simply enforce basic rules....
- If you open a bottle, drink the whole thing. Don't drink half and then throw it away.
- Don't use it for laundry or other purposes for which non-potable water would suffice
- Don't use it for water fights (I saw our FSB doing laundry with bottled water and dumping bottled water on one another in OIF I, when our Infantry BN was drinking water from a filthy water buffalo - there was a brief exchange of unpleasantries)
- Don't use it to wash your HMMWV (I saw it almost every time that I visited the bizzaro universe known as the FOB)
My personal fav was finding 3 sets of Bradley tracks buried on LSA Anaconda by a certain tank battalion that had just left, when we had infantry Bradleys running around short-tracked due to the Bradley track shortage in 2003.
You might want to consider impromtu "oil for food prorgams" condcuted at the local level as well. The increase in tare weight and engine size to accomodate that for our fleet of tactical vehicles, and all the electronics on them (not to mention A/C) which require the vehicle to run to recharge the batts.
Yeah, big screens.
Hmm. Didn't make it through the tubes. Refire or PM?
Have you thought about reading
official histories of, say, Desert Storm, or OIF I, and then trying to extrapolate fuel requirements from them? I think, also, OIF I's official history has a footnote on the Red Ball Express (I think Van Creveld also references it as an example of diminishing returns at the end of his book on logistics). You might also want to look at Pagonis, "Moving Mountains" (I think that's what it's called).
Thanks
Jeff
Certain Victory devoted a chapter to the logistics end of things for Desert Sheild and Storm you should take a look at it here
Jeff, that is an interesting point that I hadn't thought to consider. I appreciate that you said it.
There was an interesting graph of the range of an M1 tank with and without an Auxiliary Power Unit. The increased range of an APU and perhaps also the more efficient turbine that was part of the Crusader program could have made a difference in rate of advance. The LV100-5 turbine gets 33% better mileage underway and features 50% reduced consumption at idle and has 43% fewer parts, a salient fact when one considers that something like 25% of the Army maintenance budget goes to service the Honeywell AGT 1500 turbine, per the Defense Science Board.
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