But whether or not we came out of Vietnam etc and were stronger for it, I'm not so sure. It is somewhat subjective I suppose. It does leave a bad taste in my mouth, having invaded Iraq and set the country on it's head only to leave before the job was done, it just seems kind of, I don't know, but I don't like it, I feel like we have an obligation to what I beleive is the silent Iraqi majority who I suspect want us to stay untill the job is closer to being over. Of course, it is a matter of opinion, and politics. I do see your points, I truly do. The Iraqi government certainly isn't making a strong case are they? But, if we do leave, I see the region on a war footing, I feel that the course is set and is beyond their control. Sunni, Shia rivalry and animosities will flare, the fighting will spread. The Saudis will not allow the Iranian backed Shia to slaughter or oppress the Sunni in Iraq. It is a question of, I suppose, are we willing to let a war occur as part of the region's evolution and see where the chips land when it's over? Or, do we get dragged back over there when Israel is attacked, and fight in a much larger, deadly, more costly war? World War III maybe?