FOB Keating attack repulsed

[MikeF]

KABUL — 8 international troops and 2 Afghans killed in attack on military outposts in Afghanistan.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...xyQ1wD9B42SEG0

[gh_uk]

From the NYT:

KABUL, Oct. 4 (Reuters) - Eight U.S. troops were killed in battle after tribal militia attacked two combat outposts in a remote area in eastern Afghanistan, the military said on Sunday, the deadliest battle for U.S. troops in more than a year.

Two Afghan soldiers were also killed in the battle, which took place in a remote area from which U.S. forces had already announced plans to withdraw as part of commander General Stanley McChrystal's strategy to focus his forces on population centres.

Saturday's attacks were launched by militia in Nuristan province from a local mosque and a nearby village on two joint NATO and Afghan outposts, the NATO-led International Security Assistance Force said. The NATO troops in the area are American.

"My heart goes out to the families of those we have lost and to their fellow soldiers who remained to finish the fight," Colonel Randy George, commander of the U.S. force in the eastern mountain area bordering Pakistan, said in the statement.

"This was a complex attack in a difficult area. Both the U.S. and Afghan soldiers fought bravely together. I am extremely proud of their professionalism and bravery."

The statement added: "coalition forces' previously announced plans to depart the area as part of a broader realignment to protect larger populations remains unchanged."

Tribal militia?

[William F. Owen]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8289200.stm

BBC, so can't speak to the actual accuracy, but here it is.

[Schmedlap]

Dang. I was hoping that this thread would serve a placeholder to shoot down any rumors. I guess it's for real.

This, too, just popped up a few minutes ago...

Militant fighters streaming from a village and a mosque attacked a pair of remote outposts near the Pakistan border, killing eight American soldiers and as many as seven Afghan forces in one of the fiercest gunbattles of the troubled eight-year war.

The Taliban claimed responsibility for the deadliest attack for coalition forces since a similar raid in July 2008 killed nine American soldiers in the same mountainous region known as a haven for al-Qaida militants. The U.S. has already said it plans to leave the remote area to focus on Afghan population centres.

via canoe.ca

More at the link.

Yon said (about eight hours ago) that casualties were still coming in, even though the attack had occurred quite a while earlier. I don't know if that means walking wounded stayed behind to maintain security or if that is the reason for the disparity in ANSF casualty figures.

[Westhawk]

According to press reports, Gen McChrystal ordered such outposts in Nuristan province closed, in order to focus troops in populated areas. It seems likely that the Taliban mounted this attack to create the impression that they are driving the U.S. Army out. We will see if they succeed with this information operation.

As that IO battle percolates, McChrystal, whose stock price is probably dropping in the West Wing, will no doubt be asked a few questions:

1) Why the delay closing the eastern outposts? Any plans to accelerate the closures now? And how will that look?

2) Any connection between your new rules of engagement and the Taliban's ability to organize this attack?

3) The President's objective is to “to disrupt, dismantle and destroy al Qaeda.” Yet you plan on abandoning the positions in Afghanistan that are closest to the al Qaeda senior leadership's suspected positions in Pakistan and al Qaeda's principle infiltration routes into Afghanistan. How will this strategy achieve the President's objective?

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Let us pause for a moment to remember the fallen, their families, and their friends.

-Robert Haddick

[Ken White]

As that IO battle percolates, McChrystal, whose stock price is probably dropping in the West Wing...

Good MSM snark line, poor serious comment IMO. Dana Milbank will love it, tho'...

All of the questions you pose will likely be asked by the ignorant (read MSM, Congress, WH Staffers) so for you to surface them in that vein as a preemptive effort to those yo-yos is worthwhile. If, OTOH, they are posed as serious questions, they are a terrible indictment of the Prez and his crew or who ever would ask such relatively inane questions.

"How will that look?" look?

Any connection between the ROE and the Talibs ability to attack? That's like asking if our presence in Afghanistan has any connection. 'When did you stop beating your wife, General McChrystal...'

...How will this strategy achieve the President's objective?

How well can you mix tactics and strategery...

[Cavguy]

3) The President's objective is to “to disrupt, dismantle and destroy al Qaeda.” Yet you plan on abandoning the positions in Afghanistan that are closest to the al Qaeda senior leadership's suspected positions in Pakistan and al Qaeda's principle infiltration routes into Afghanistan. How will this strategy achieve the President's objective?

Bob, ever read Street without Joy? Shows the (lack of) value of undermanned outposts in bad country. These posts had little/nothing to do with AQIZ targeting. We still have ways to get there without these outposts, which have become logistical/tactical challenges and are having precisely the opposite effect on the population they intended because of lack of force structure to do more than really protect themselves ...

[MikeF]

Bob, ever read Street without Joy? Shows the (lack of) value of undermanned outposts in bad country. These posts had little/nothing to do with AQIZ targeting. We still have ways to get there without these outposts, which have become logistical/tactical challenges and are having precisely the opposite effect on the population they intended because of lack of force structure to do more than really protect themselves ...

This may be one of the few times that I disagree with Niel. I think we should look at reinforcing Nuristan. Here's my take reposted from the front page. Looking forward to feedback or disagreement. I think it's an important thing to discuss.

Mike's World of COIN

First, my heart goes out to the unit and the families of the Fallen in Nuristan. I have been in that situation before, and I understand the psychological and morale effects of everyone involved.

Second, we have the opportunity to effect the IO war with this battle. Back in 2007, my sister company experienced an attack on their patrol base in Sadah, Iraq. Nine paratroopers died and another 20 were wounded. I wrote about the events leading up to it in "Love and Hate" for SWJ. Seventy-two hours prior, I had lunch with the AQ leadership and offered an ultimatum: 1. Peace, 2. Destruction. They chose the latter and answered with that attack.

Sadah was unimportant in our scheme of maneuver. It was a mere foothold into the DRV so I could seize Zaganiyah, the military key terrain. C Troop was one week from leaving that patrol base in order to prepare for further clearance up the Diyala River. We were a shaping effort to a supporting effort, and our force ration was 300 paratroopers for a population of 100,000.

Immediately after the attack, COL David Sutherland, CDR 3/1 BCT, and LTC Andrew Poppas, CDR 5-73, rushed to the scene. I sent a platoon plus to secure the scene and dig through the ruble trying to recover anyone still alive. For twleve hours, we listened as battle rosters were called. Every once in a while, a medic would think that he had found a pulse or the hint of breathing. We would hold our breathe and pray until the casualty was finally pronounced dead.

Simultaneously, I took my remaining platoon and we tracked down the videographer killing him in a late night raid- My biggest fear was a video hitting the web of an American Patrol Base getting destroyed.

The command team made a decision. F*ck the plan, things changed, and we were staying. We rebuilt the patrol base, reinforced the area with two american platoons and an Iraqi battalion. Our actions were our IO message.

In the short term, attacks soared up to twelve a day on my troop. Sixty days later, we pacified the area and violence went to almost zero.

Sometimes, we have to allow the events on the ground to help shape our actions. This battle could be one of those moments. For a moment, we could forget the debate on A'stan strategy, COIN v/s CT, and make a stand in Nuranistan.

Send a battalion or brigade there. Let everyone in the province know you are staying the course. Taunt the enemy. Send broadcast proclaiming that AQ/Taliban are weak. Challenge them to come to Nuranistan to die.

Be the biggest Tribe.

v/r

Mike