"We're pinned down": 4 Marines die in Afghan ambush

[Michael C]

Or if we agree. But my core argument, that you never quite dispute, is that democracy can be a tangible goal with clear metrics. You don't want to establish democracies around the globe, but you can't dispute that is a tangible goal.

You say, [

what is "democracy" and what is "failed" mean very different things to different peoples (and to different think tanks)"

I don't disagree. But, some states are clearly democracies and some are clearly failed. No intelligent person believes Somalia is either a democracy or a successful state. Same would go for Iraq around 2005-2006, not so much any more. No reasonable person disputes that America is both successful and a democracy. The difference is what think tanks debate. But, our civilian and military leadership should decide what goals they have when they are invading a country. If establishing a democracy is a goal, as Bush said about Iraq, then we should have metrics to back it up, and they exist.

You then said,

If you want metrics, go district by district; and find out what form of governance the people want."

In Afghanistan, I don't dispute that different districts want different things. I know how broken the system is from Kabul to the districts, I have talked to district sub-governors and village elders. That doesn't change the fact that we can find metrics to measure democracy. It also doesn't change the fact that the people of Afghanistan would prefer a stable democracy to a return of Taliban rule. Especially at the rural, district level that is what they say.

You finish by quoting Dr. Kilcullen. I thought the Accidental Guerilla was fantastic without a doubt. I agree with him that COIN should be waged as a last resort. Unfortunately, when I graduated college the Army was already waging to COIN operations. It seems, to me, that the best course now is getting by leaving stable countries in our wake, not failed ones. To do that we need metrics, and those metrics will be about stable democracies.

Final thought. Initially you said,

So, yes, I am uncomfortable with loss of life (and the other personal costs of war) for such intangibles as "making the world safe for democracy" and the like."

Isn't that exactly what our forefathers were doing by fighting the Nazis on the beaches of Normandy? WWII was nothing if not a battle of democracies--UK, France and America--versus fascist dictatorships. Just saying.