Rifle squad composition

[B.Smitty]

30 Man Platoon Outline

Manning
1 Officer, 1 Sergeant, 2 Corporals, 2 Lance Corporals, 24 other ranks

Weapons.
30 x Individual Weapons/Carbines (5.56mm)
6 x 40mm UGL kits, or 40mm launchers
2 x GPMG (7.62mm)
2 x Long Range Rifles (8.6mm)
1 x 60mm Mortar Hand Held
2 x MAW, - Alcotan / Panzerfaust / 84mm
M72 type LAW and M200 type Rifle grenade issued as required.

3 x ATGM Posts held for Anti-armour mission

Communications
30 x PRR
6 x PRC-148 or 710 type multi-band hand held.
1 x HF Manpack
6 x Commanders GPS sets (PLGR) and PDAs

Night Vision
30 x NVG and IR Weapons pointer
4 x Weapons mounted Long Range Night Sight
4 x Thermal Weapons sight
6 x Light Weight Laser Range Finder

Organisations – organised by mission, transport and operational requirement.
2 x Multiples
Each multiple is 3 x 5 man teams. Each multiple Commanded by the Platoon
Commander, and the Platoon Sergeant.
3 x Sections
3 Sections of 2 x 5 man teams, or each section as 3,3,4 groups.
5 x Sections of 6 men
6 Sections of 5 men.

Transport (as dismounts)
5 x 6 man APC
4 x 8 man APC (2 spare seats)
3 x 10 man APC
10 x M/WMIK crews (2 Sections of 5 vehicles)

I just came upon this thread, so forgive me for posting so late.

Mr. Owen, I had a couple questions about your 30-man platoon TOE from way back.

I recognize the desire to pack more HE tossers into the platoon, but does this really leave enough basic infantry for CQB, room clearing, and so on in a 30 man platoon?

If you have 5 CSWs (2xGPMG, 2xMAW, 1x60mm mortar, not including ATGMs), you'll tie up at least 10 men carrying and supporting them. Take away two more for the LRRs, for a total of at least 12 soldiers tied up supporting CSWs or wedded to a big weapon. You may even tie up more as ammo bearers for the CSWs.

Add in 3 ATGM posts plus missiles and that's at least another 6 soldiers. Given that, and taking away the PL and PS, two thirds of your platoon will be non-door kickers.

I see you also include a carbine for each man in the platoon, allowing some men to drop their CSW and become riflemen, as needed. However can a foot-borne CSW gunner reasonably carry a carbine plus ammo in addition to his CSW+ammo? They are probably overloaded as it is (especially factoring in body armor).

[reed11b]

Smitty, if you have 3 ATGMs in use, you are probably not in a serious door kicking (i.e. COIN/CT) environment. If you are facing tanks, you probably are focused on that level of threat.
Reed

[B.Smitty]

Smitty, if you have 3 ATGMs in use, you are probably not in a serious door kicking (i.e. COIN/CT) environment. If you are facing tanks, you probably are focused on that level of threat.
Reed

Understandable, but then does the Company keep the ATGM posts when not in use? If that's the case, why not just have the ATGMs at the Company level and attach as needed to Platoons?

Regardless, even without the ATGMs, there are still at least 12 soldiers tied up with CSWs or LRRs. Is this a reasonable ratio of riflemen to CSW/LRRs?

On a separate note, I worry that rounds for the current crop of crew-served MAWs are just too heavy to carry in significant numbers. The average CG round weighs 3+kg. Most other MAW rounds are significantly heavier (IIRC, Panzerfaust 3 rounds are >10kg each). How many rounds does an average 2-man CG team carry? 4?

This is where the RPG-7 is nice. It has a range of rounds from 2kg to 4.5kg.

[William F. Owen]

If you have 5 CSWs (2xGPMG, 2xMAW, 1x60mm mortar, not including ATGMs), you'll tie up at least 10 men carrying and supporting them. Take away two more for the LRRs, for a total of at least 12 soldiers tied up supporting CSWs or wedded to a big weapon. You may even tie up more as ammo bearers for the CSWs.


Add in 3 ATGM posts plus missiles and that's at least another 6 soldiers. Given that, and taking away the PL and PS, two thirds of your platoon will be non-door kickers.

Who carries what weapon and when would be decided by the mission. This is what the platoon has available, NOT what the platoon carries. Items not in use would be back-loaded.

Nor are the scales absolute. I would expect the scales to vary with mission and the type of formation. Facing a lot of armour (could happen), you would need double the ATGM posts.

....and this is not the last word in TOE. It's merely an example to extrapolate things from. I'm speaking about scaling the platoon at a conference in Brussels in December, so I'll be working on this some more. Thanks for the interest.

[Firn]

What about the addition of a spotting scope per GPMG team? This way the biggest source of direct firepower would have excellent observation capabilities at hand. It should greatly enhance the capability to detect and identify the targets and to observe the effect of the force (suppressive fire by the GPMG, the effectivness of the IDF and so on)

Firn

P.S: One in Owen's DMR team would of course be nice too. In decent conditions you can easily see moving men from 15km or more with a good one. I recently came across the very interesting book 'Sniping in France, with notes on the scientific training of scouts, observers, and snipers'. It of course a bit biased, having been written in 1920 by Hesketh Hesketh-Prichard, but is very informative and not only concerning the quintessential importance of telescopes (spotting scopes) for observation in both static and open warfare.

[jcustis]

What about the addition of a spotting scope per GPMG team?

I'd say no. The are bulky and not so easy to put into use. A good quality pair of binos or a well-glassed monocular is satisfactory.

[Firn]

I'd say no. The are bulky and not so easy to put into use. I good quality pair of binos or a well-glassed monocular is satisfactory.

That is what I thought too before I spend some time with a good spotting scope. On can get one suited for most situations for 0,7 kg with a light tripod. With 1,3 kg you can have a brilliant one. There is a huge world of difference between a quality spotting scope with a 30x W (or 20-60x) eye piece or and 7x or 12x binos. You must try and see to believe. One can easily get handheld a rather steady picture with some aiming technique and a steady one when using a tree or wall. A tripod is of course the best way to use it.

Overall I do think that pound for pound it can be a very valuable addition, especially in places like Afghanistan. To exchange some firepower for far more observation power can be the sine qua non.

Firn

P.S: The Part III of the Appendix (p. 239) has some of the many observations in the book. Interesting aspects are the close link between observes with telescopes and aerial photography or the close cooperation between machine guns, snipers and artillery with the observer with the so priced telescopes.

[William F. Owen]

P.S: The Part III of the Appendix (p. 239) has some of the many observations in the book. Interesting aspects are the close link between observes with telescopes and aerial photography or the close cooperation between machine guns, snipers and artillery with the observer with the so priced telescopes.

Yep, that's the part of the book most "Snipers" don't bother reading. (It's Part IV, Appendix C, page 192 in the Leo Cooper 1994 Edition.) I strongly recommend all of the Appendix. It shows how far many modern sniper doctrines have strayed from the original intent, and yet cling to the least relevant parts.

Hopefully UK operations in Afghanistan are forcing some long over-due changes.

[Fuchs]

It's OK for a picket team, but I wouldn't include a spotter scope into a squad in general. It's enough if two are available at the platoon sergeant's vehicle.