US Soldier captured in Afghanistan

[Greyhawk]

"It's something COL Steele would've done."

Extremely presumptive on many levels and unnecessary to this discussion.

[Brandon Friedman]

Originally Posted by Greyhawk

I think that's a fine point with which to close the discussion.

Originally Posted by Greyhawk

I'm confident enough that I don't know enough to discuss

Originally Posted by Greyhawk

A path best left untraveled

Extremely presumptive on many levels and unnecessary to this discussion.

I don't recall anyone forcing you to jump into this thread, Greyhawk. If you don't like the discussion--or the idea that I brought this topic up--you're certainly free to not participate. But I think it would be better if, rather than you telling me what I've said is "unnecessary" and that I'm on "a path best left untraveled," you simply rebutted my argument about the leaflets with either facts or your own opinions based on personal experience.

I made a comment that compared today's seemingly heavy-handed tactics in two Afghan villages with the known heavy-handed tactics of a man whose "leadership" not only tarnished the reputation of the unit with which I served in both Afghanistan and Iraq, but also set back efforts in working with the Iraqi populace. If you think that's presumptive of me, that's fine. Just explain why. . .instead of making three comments to suggest what I should or shouldn't be talking about.

[davidbfpo]

Since the capture of the US soldier and some of what has happened since is in the public domain I can see no reason why SWC cannot comment. Yes 'unknowns' exist and we have an abundance of experience and outlooks here; alongside - in reserve - robust moderation when required.

Returning to the leaflet drop are they the "tip of the iceberg" or a sign of desperation? Only those closer in will know; we can comment, OK some may call that speculation.

davidbfpo

[Schmedlap]

Originally Posted by Brandon Friedman

I made a comment that compared today's seemingly heavy-handed tactics in two Afghan villages with the known heavy-handed tactics of a man whose "leadership" not only tarnished the reputation of the unit with which I served in both Afghanistan and Iraq, but also set back efforts in working with the Iraqi populace. If you think that's presumptive of me, that's fine. Just explain why. . .instead of making three comments to suggest what I should or shouldn't be talking about.

I can only speak for myself, but that does not seem like a wise comparison at this time. We simply don't know the rationale behind this decision. When this episode is over and we have more information available, then we can determine whether or not this was too heavy-handed. "Heavy" is relative to the situation. I have endured the snail-like pace of developing PSYOP products. Most requests, in my experience, were turned down or were so watered down as to be pointless because of some overly cautious TA analysis.

Drawing a comparison to Steele is to suggest recklessness or incompetence. It surprises me that products like this were fielded. But having some familiarity with how the development process works, I am very hesitant to assume that this was just some reckless or poorly thought-out decision. Of course, this is the Army, so there is always the possibility that your hunch is correct. But it seems a bit early and information a bit scarce to start making such comparisons.

But aside from that narrow point, discussion is good. I concur with david - it's already in the public domain.

[Greyhawk]

I was trying to be brief in hopes of not being misunderstood, and I failed quite completely. Schmedlap's longer, thoughtful response captures what I was attempting to say. (If he gleaned any of that from what I said, then perhaps I'm only a partial failure.)

I was entirely wrong to say anything approaching "close the discussion". That was ill considered on my part. I further failed at attempting to fully clarify that in a follow up comment - bad on me again. Apologies to all in that regard.

Brandon: I'm also saying that based on all we know, you're right.

[Kevin23]

Even though there is a good likelihood this soldier has been captured.

How sure are we that he really has been picked up by the Taliban or other hostiles out there. Because I remember hearing on the news that a Taliban commander in the area he was captured was threatening to kill this soldier was believed by intel not to even be in possession of the man. Even though this may sound kind of silly but does anyone think the soldier after having this breakdown could be in hiding out there and just afraid to return back to American forces or Coalition forces despite the unlikelihood of that?

[Ken White]

Originally Posted by Kevin23

Even though there is a good likelihood this soldier has been captured...How sure are we that he really has been picked up by the Taliban or other hostiles out there... could be in hiding out there and just afraid to return back to American forces or Coalition forces despite the unlikelihood of that?

All possible. We'll see, it'll all come out eventually. Based on what little we do know, the leaflets seem heavy handed and ill advised but even that is perhaps premature.

First news reports are usually pretty poor; generally best to wait until you get three or four reports, hopefully conflicting, then you can sort them out and make up your mind -- and then you'll have a better chance of being right. Even then it's still a just chance...

[Kevin23]

Originally Posted by Ken White

All possible. We'll see, it'll all come out eventually. Based on what little we do know, the leaflets seem heavy handed and ill advised but even that is perhaps premature.

First news reports are usually pretty poor; generally best to wait until you get three or four reports, hopefully conflicting, then you can sort them out and make up your mind -- and then you'll have a better chance of being right. Even then it's still a just chance...

Also to add to this point I find it odd no other factions other then this Taliban Commander have come forward to claim this guy. Having an American or other Coalition soldier as a hostage is some valuable regardless of any negotiation value.

[IntelTrooper]

Originally Posted by Kevin23

Also to add to this point I find it odd no other factions other then this Taliban Commander have come forward to claim this guy. Having an American or other Coalition soldier as a hostage is some valuable regardless of any negotiation value.

My friends in the Tora Bora Front, LET, et al. are too smart to do something like that. It's one thing to make claims about the number of US, ANA, humvees, etc. destroyed in another province. It's hard to confirm or deny such a thing. But in the end, only one group has this soldier, if any at all. The situation is high-profile enough that when the truth comes out, some people could look very silly and stand to lose a lot of credibility. The IO campaign for most of these groups is just too sophisticated to do something clumsy like that.

[Ron Humphrey]

here

[IntelTrooper]

Originally Posted by Ron Humphrey

here

Hmmn... captured after getting left behind on a patrol is certainly different from wandering off base... I wonder which account is more accurate.

[Brandon Friedman]

Originally Posted by Schmedlap

Drawing a comparison to Steele is to suggest recklessness or incompetence. It surprises me that products like this were fielded. But having some familiarity with how the development process works, I am very hesitant to assume that this was just some reckless or poorly thought-out decision. Of course, this is the Army, so there is always the possibility that your hunch is correct. But it seems a bit early and information a bit scarce to start making such comparisons.

Yes, I’m speculating. I’m not there on the ground, so there’s obviously a lot I/we don’t know. And like I said, I’d love to be proved wrong. I just can’t think of a context or scenario where threatening the civilian population could end well. Even if it gets positive results initially (like, say, we get the soldier back), it’ll still likely end with Jed carrying his brother out past a disillusioned Cuban counterinsurgent.

It seems to me that most everyone agrees that, as presented, this is a bad idea. And I just stopped being uncritical of the leadership in these types of situations after witnessing the abysmal lack of COIN prowess at times by individuals like Odierno, Steele, and Craddock (not to mention in places like Abu Ghraib).

Originally Posted by Greyhawk

I was trying to be brief in hopes of not being misunderstood. . . .

No worries, man.

Originally Posted by Ron Humphrey

here

And ABC News has now posted the video. They’re a media organization, so competition presumably dictates that they must post this video if they have it. But I probably wouldn’t have helped the Taliban spread propaganda by posting it if it were up to me.

[Ken White]

Originally Posted by Brandon Friedman

... COIN prowess..

I'm always interested in learning new things...

[George L. Singleton]

And ABC News has now posted the video. They’re a media organization, so competition presumably dictates that they must post this video if they have it. But I probably wouldn’t have helped the Taliban spread propaganda by posting it if it were up to me.

Mr. Friedman, having been in SW Asia uniquely years ago, lack of widespread public education uninfected by religious mumbo jumbo leaves millions still desperate illiterate and subject to the broadcast media, radio and TV, as their sole source of information.

Hence my push started in April 2008 to improve our use of Voice of America, radio and TV, in conjunction with improved psyops and civil affairs on the ground by our military remains my humble but sharpest focus of how to overcome misinformation which is 50% of our enemy in the war on terrorism. The other 50% of course being the literaly bloody enemy, whose motives and understanding of "why they fight" are what I want VOA, psyops, and civil affiars to address 24/7.

[George L. Singleton]

We now need VOA TV and radio broadcasts "advertsing" to return for a reward the kidnapped PFC currently being held hostage.

All broadcasts need to be in the native dialects common on both sides of the Durland Line. Ads offering rewards and quoting the Qu'ran about peace and about helping other "People of the Book", ie, as we are all literally descendants of Abraham [as described both in our Holy Bible and in the Qu'ran] I believe this would work better than leaflets which many native illiterates cannot read, even though they can look at a cheap picture on a leaflet.

We are dealing here with terrorist "rug merchants" treating a soldier as a trading property of value.

Kidnapped, he apparently has been sold by a lower level Taliban outfit to a higher level Taliban outfit who want to now use him as a bargaining chip to gain release of other Taliban prisoners and on the side also want money, ie, to be "paid off."

Taliban alleged remarks for the whole war to stop over one PFC's kidnapping are off the wall and most likely not the result these rug merchants realistically hope for...which is the release of many Taliban prisoners and being literally paid off in money, too.

The less said about this whole fiasco by the media the better as I have said before. Right now the Talaiban are getting millions of dollars worth of free public relations, albeit negative public relations...the old political addage here in the South regarding politicians, which the Taliban are a sort of, is "spell my name in your newspaper correctly no matter what you say about me!"

A "hostage" is not a prisoner of war.

[davidbfpo]

The last time an American service member went missing in Afghanistan was in June, when Pfc. Bowe R. Bergdahl was captured after straying from a US base near the eastern border with Pakistan. On July 18, Taliban insurgents released a video of the 23-year-old soldier from Idaho. Bergdahl has not been found.

From:http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...,1106216.story

Let's hope he has not been forgotten and this is an appropriate update as Rememberance Sunday is tomorrow (US equivalent: Veterans Day?).

davidbfpo

[carl]

Here is a link to NYT reporter David Rohde's account of his 7 month captivity in the hands of the Taliban. I don't know if it has been posted on SWJ before but it might be relevant to this discussion.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/18/wo...18hostage.html

[jmm99]

= the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month, 1918, when the guns fell silent on the Western Front in the War to End All Wars. Short Wiki.

Best

Mike