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Thread: First U.S. Official Resigns Over Afghan War

  1. #61
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    Posted by Steve the Planner,

    Remember that it is the peace that was flubbed, not the war-fighting part (until after the peace part failed). So, how many different ways are there to start a viable post-conflict process.
    Please elaborate on this comment. I'm not sure I'm following your line of logic on this.

    Tom,

    I'm not so sure we disagree on your points, my disappointment is that no one addressed his points except RYNO, and he basically dismissed them without explaination. Is the issue Hoh quitting or his resignation letter? As you said, many folks are quitting, and some are only quitting because its hard, not because they disagree. Either way not a behavioral trait to encourage.

    I think you're misinterpreting the push back to this story. It's not about the messenger or the message. It's about the media making news rather than reporting it.
    I don't know if it has always been this way, but it has definitely been this way since the advent of 24/7 news. It's a business that has long lost its professional ethics. Giving the power of information, professional reporters should be licensed and their license should be revoked if they violate an agreed upon code of ethics. That's just an opinion, and of course it will never make it past the SWJ Council.

  2. #62
    Council Member Tom Odom's Avatar
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    Tom,

    I'm not so sure we disagree on your points, my disappointment is that no one addressed his points except RYNO, and he basically dismissed them without explaination. Is the issue Hoh quitting or his resignation letter? As you said, many folks are quitting, and some are only quitting because its hard, not because they disagree. Either way not a behavioral trait to encourage.
    Bill

    Perhaps not. My point is that quitting your job in the face of adversity makes your opinions on said job less than valuable to me, especially when you then try an apply them on a scale beyond their relevance. Doing that and then claiming an even larger purpose--as in the soldiers' lives as well as their families--is even worse.

    I guess what bothers me the most is the idea that if this person can quit and then come across doing so as a responsible leader, what do we say to the squad leader, platoon leader, company commander who feels disenchanted? This to me is not the same as McMaster's book of the failure of senior leaders to stand up on Vietnam. Mr. Hoh was not serving as a general; he volunteered to take a political officer slot on a PRT, as indicated in subsequent reports on a contract.

    I agree with you on the news media exploitation angle; that to me is pretty much a red herring. That is what the news media does and the only way to avoid it is not offer yourself up. The one area I see exploitation is the senior Foreign service officer angle; that too is something of a red herring because Mr. Hoh's resignation speaks to his appointment as a Political Officer in the Foriegn Service as well as the Senior Civilian Representative for the US Government in Zabul Province. If as he indicates he wants his 15 minutes to end, he could try getting off the stage.

    Let me wrap up this spew with a final thought: it is difficult enough as a civilian who retired from the military to bond with the tribe on wartime deployment. The friction of them versus us never really goes away; trust, however, mitigates its worst effects. My brothers and sisters in uniform expect a certain level of partnership; they can't just quit when things get ####ty and neither should I.

    Best
    Tom

  3. #63
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    This to me is not the same as McMaster's book of the failure of senior leaders to stand up on Vietnam. Mr. Hoh was not serving as a general; he volunteered to take a political officer slot on a PRT, as indicated in subsequent reports on a contract.

    My brothers and sisters in uniform expect a certain level of partnership; they can't just quit when things get ####ty and neither should I.
    Agree, but darn it I still want to debate of couple of his points

    P.S. Keep your head down, I admire you for getting back in the ring again after being retired for a few years.
    Last edited by Bill Moore; 11-02-2009 at 08:32 AM.

  4. #64
    Council Member Tom Odom's Avatar
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    few years
    You have no idea how kind you are being

  5. #65
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    Default Well originally

    Ha, originally I wrote old timer, but then thought you might want to kick my butt for posting that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Moore View Post
    Ha, originally I wrote old timer, but then thought you might want to kick my butt for posting that.
    Respect your elders. Tom, like many senior officers that I've met, has an uncanny ability to make me rethink my positions or my perceptions of "facts." IMO, he makes a strong case that Hoh should have sucked it up and completed his tour before resigning.

    On the other hand, when I first read the story, I was wondering why Hoh left the Marines. Does anyone know? Maybe he was disillusioned with the understanding that the military is only a partial solution in small wars, and he thought he could be more effective as a political officer. I dunno.

    Any thoughts?

    Mike

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    Mike:

    Assuming integrity, I believe Hoh was looking for a way to make a difference in Afghanistan.

    In Iraq, a Blue Badge (State Department) was a way to do that, but you had to (1) know how to use it (takes more than four months), (2) bring something substantial to the table re: post-conflict stabilization, and (3) build a cadre of civ/mil/nationals connections to accomplish things.

    All the more sad that he quit well before becoming effective.

    Ambassador Crocker (on Afghanistan) argued for "strategic patience."

    Steve

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    Steve,

    You probably just nailed it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve the Planner View Post
    I believe Hoh was looking for a way to make a difference in Afghanistan.

    Ambassador Crocker (on Afghanistan) argued for "strategic patience."
    Unfortunately, for many of us (myself included), decisive action to make a difference and strategic patience are mutually exclusive at times.

    BTW, I'm sorting through Tolle's A New Earth. It's all about meta-physics and transcending ego so I'll probably ramble more about small wars, the human condition, and the illusion of control as I continue to contemplate my own theories

    Mike
    Last edited by MikeF; 11-02-2009 at 11:00 PM.

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    Mike:

    I started with that meta-physical stuff (after a stint as an NCO in 3/64 Armor).

    It took a while to outgrow it.

    Maybe doing it the other way around (after you know enough) will be more enlightening (and with less unintended consequences).

    Actually, one of my favorite readings was from Alberto Guerreiro Ramos, who really probes the depths of the role of government and society in an age of public scepticism and theoretical uncertainty (1970's).

    "The new science of organizations: a reconceptualization of the wealth of nations." Rio de Janeiro: Editora da Fundação Getúlio Vargas, 1989 Rio de Janeiro: Editora da Fundação Getúlio Vargas, 1989, is one of those books that takes years to read, and leaves you confused for decades.

    Steve

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve the Planner View Post
    Mike:

    I started with that meta-physical stuff (after a stint as an NCO in 3/64 Armor).

    It took a while to outgrow it.

    Maybe doing it the other way around (after you know enough) will be more enlightening (and with less unintended consequences).

    Actually, one of my favorite readings was from Alberto Guerreiro Ramos, who really probes the depths of the role of government and society in an age of public scepticism and theoretical uncertainty (1970's).

    "The new science of organizations: a reconceptualization of the wealth of nations." Rio de Janeiro: Editora da Fundação Getúlio Vargas, 1989 Rio de Janeiro: Editora da Fundação Getúlio Vargas, 1989, is one of those books that takes years to read, and leaves you confused for decades.

    Steve
    I should have known that you were in the wrong batallion. 1-64 AR, Desert Rogues here....I'm doing it all in reverse- from practice to theory. Thanks for the links. We'll see where it leads.

    Mike

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    Default Recruitment of civilians and duties of PRT officers

    Steve:

    Your previous question about recruitment of civilians in Afghanistan is a good one, but the DOS PRT officer is supposed to be a political officer rather than a development expert. His (or her) responsibilities include reporting on political, pol-mil, economic, and social developments of interest to the Embassy in Kabul. The PRT officer should also be a political advisor to the PRT Commander and, depending on the situation, a political advisor to Afghan officials, notably the Provincial Governor.

    My list of desired qualities of a PRT officer would include: at least one (preferably two or more) overseas tours as a political officer involving interaction with host national politicians (without a translator) with related analysis and reporting for Washington consumers; experience with the interagency process developed in a Washington assignment as a country desk officer; understanding of military structure, procedures, and operations gained through a pol-mil assignment or through prior military service; a basic understanding of counterinsurgency theory; service overseas in a semi-permissive or non-permissive environment; service in at least two Embassies; and, supervisory experience in an Embassy or in a domestic assignment in the State Department.

    We do not have too many FSOs who fit all of the above requirements and many of the PRT officers in Afghanistan are junior officers who have not spent enough time in the Foreign Service to have gained the experience that would help them to perform effectively in such an environment. (This is not to say that they are not doing a good job but it is a steep learning curve without the years of experience.)

    I think in the case of Mr. Hoh, the recruiters did not do a good job of looking at his qualifications. I suspect they decided that being a Marine combat veteran in Iraq and a civilian veteran in Iraq were sufficient without examining his actual duties in those jobs. There are military personnel who could do a credible job as a political officer but I would look for someone with more years of experience (i.e. MAJ or LTC), especially those with a FAO qualification, and look first at the Army SF and CA communities. I've also run across a few NCOs and Warrant Officers from 7th and 20th SFG whom I believe could do the job.

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    That certainly makes sense.

    Steve

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    Default my two cents

    Here are my two cents after having briefly worked with Matt.

    Overall, I thought of him to be a go-getter type of guy.

    He left...my first impression: so what, the mission still continues.

    Zabul is hard...organizational issues between the Romanians and American Task Force and its headquarters in Kandahar. It's the poorest province in Afghanistan. What district or province isn't hard? No easy button in Afghanistan...sorry.

    Most of us at Task Force Stryker cover both Kandahar and Zabul and all the headaches that generate from that. Governance, Reconstruction, Development and all that other jazz.

    In conclusion- we are fine. Other people have stepped up to fill the roles. In fact I've never even seen heard of the media attention until I signed up for this forum today...so maybe it's a case of armchair generals and reporters overanalyzing things.

    P.S. Building a girl's school is dumb, especially in a place like Zabul. Z-PRT has been assessed to not move too far away from HWY1.

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    Default Comments about Zabul Province

    There seems to be a competition for bragging rights as the poorest province in Afghanistan. Bagdhis Province in RC-West has also claimed the title. I imagine that a few other provinces could also make a good case. I don't know if there are credible statistics to establish a winner.

    Early last year at KAF I heard a U.S. SOF officer say the following: "God bless the Romanians, their hearts are in the right place but when you talk COIN and look into their eyes you can see that it is way over their heads."

    I was at Camp Atterbury in June as an interagency OC/T for the MRX of the 12 U.S. PRTs getting ready to deploy to Afghanistan. Our lane was the elections scenario that included Afghan role players playing the provincial governor, provincial Chief of Police, UNAMA official, and UNDP official. The PRT Zabul team that came through our lane made quite an impression because it was led by a USAF FAO who spoke better Pashto than all of the Afghan role players (who spoke Dari as their first language). In fact, this FAO and a woman FSO who was formerly assigned as the DOS PRT Officer in Kunar are the only U.S. officers whom I have met that are competent Pashto speakers.

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