Mandatory Reading For Anyone Interested in the Middle East: The Israeli Lobby

[Fuchs]

And...? All ideologies are built on myths. Democracy? Christianity? Islam? if you want to sum all of them up with "so what?" then OK.

To whit,
Would have been safer than Germany in the 1940s. - and the issues is safer, not safe. I can quote you many other examples, after 1948.
It's an aspiration. It's not prediction.
I can live with that. I have very happy to insult countries that stood by and watch their Jewish populations predated up by either the people or the Government. I can start a list of you wish.

Stop trying to dodge points with such nonsense, please.


Your "So what" implies (as far as I understand English) that my counter-argument has little merit. It's thus inappropriate.


See the bunker buster thread on the "safer" argument. The comparison with the worst alternative is an idiotic line of reasoning. You need to compare with the best known alternative in order to identify the best overall option.
You disagree with yourself anyway:

There are many types of Zionism, but all basically adhere to the idea of Israel being a safe haven for the Jews.

About your "It's an aspiration. It's not a prediction":
a) It's afaik always verbalised as a prediction, I've never seen it verbalised as an aspiration.
b) It's still the assertion of impossible foreknowledge.

"I can live with that. I have very happy to insult countries that stood by and watch their Jewish populations predated up by either the people or the Government."

This is again a very, very poor application of logic.
NO country's majority should accept an ideology that insults all other states. That's outright stupid (and dangerous).

Besides; "countries" are illusions. The humans responsible for what happened in the early 40's are now 90+ years old or dead - in either case without any ability to exert meaningful influence (and they aren't the same as 55 years ago anyway).

The societies changed a lot as well - no Western society is even close to its state before '45.
In other words; your line of thought fits to the eternal collective guilt thesis. Your readiness to provide lists of historical examples instead of lists of arguments about why it might still be the same supports this.
The eternal collective guilt thesis is the stupid thing that makes people blame Jews for killing Jesus. Do you really want to argue on that level?