Quote Originally Posted by Sylvan View Post
Its the traditional sense of ruling afghanistan that brought us where we are today.
I think that our needless interfering in Afghanistan put us where we are today. We got involved with the USSR invasion on a knee jerk basis and as much to prove the Democratic party could be 'tough on communism' as for any remotely valid reason. After doing that -- not nearly as successfully as some like to think -- we left. That was dumb. US Domestic politics have to be considered in international relations but they should not be the driving force that they are.

Then we mishandled the Taliban and Bin Laden who should've been zapped NLT 1992. We had motive, means and opportunity...
The best traditions of Afghan society (decentralized limited government) are being discarded for the more standard kleptocracy of every other failed unstable state. And we are empowering it.
We can agree on that. My question is how much of that syndrome is due to Karzai et.al. and how much is due to our actions? We've become so bureaucratic that decentralized is anathema to many here and to most in the US Government. I'm inclined to fault us on that one, admitting that the locals are, as usual, manipulating us. We're egotistical, arrogant, rich -- and dumb -- really bad combination.
Again, we can legitemately state "mission accomplished" and go home leaving Karzai to fend for himself. But as long as we are propping up his state with investments of blood and treasure, he should dance to our tune.
I agree with the first part but not the second; I don't think he can afford to do that and I'm not sure we have any business wanting him to do so, even resources and cost being considered...

I say that mostly long standing observation that "our tune" usually has been the wrong one at the wrong time and off key to boot...

In this case, I'm not at all sure we -- the US Guvmint -- could even agree on any tune or tunes. All that is admittedly academic, we are where we are and it isn't likely to get much better -- nor much worse.