|
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
Forum Organization? | Main / All | Participant Communities | Conflicts | Military Functions | Small Wars COI | Members Only |
| Law Enforcement The application of law, order, and justice -- here, there, and everywhere / international. |
![]() |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
|
#1 | |
|
Council Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,675
|
Thanks to a vigilant US press watcher: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/29/us...l.html?_r=2&hp and linked is a FBI December 2008 'Domestic Investigations Current Operations Guide', obtained in a FOI court case and has large parts blanked out: http://documents.nytimes.com/the-new...-the-f-b-i#p=1
Too large, 269 pgs, to readily absorb on a fine autumn afternoon. So try this; Quote:
davidbfpo |
|
|
|
|
|
|
#2 | ||
|
Council Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,675
|
Slightly dated as this was a speech on 22nd October 2009, entitled Los Angeles Police Department's Counterterrorism and Criminal Intelligence Bureau "Counterterrorism and Crime Fighting in Los Angeles": http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/h...LAPD-Stein.pdf (Hat tip http://counterterrorismblog.org/ ).
Amidst the speech is a section on Legitimacy and Constitutionality and Quote:
Quote:
davidbfpo |
||
|
|
|
|
|
#3 |
|
Council Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,675
|
In recent weeks it appears that a series of un-connected 'home grown' plots to attack targets in the USA have been revealed. The first article suggests a way of grading threats: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=114343626 Note the reference to the Zazi plot (Denver to NYC) having a direct link and communications with AQ. Hence the assessment this was the most serious threat since 9/11.
There is a good descriptive piece on the Zazi plot: http://www.nefafoundation.org/miscel...verArrests.pdf This IMHO lacks a good analysis and Bruce Hoffman has provided that - if wanted please PM (no link found for a recent lecture he gave at Oxford University). Last edited by davidbfpo; 2 Weeks Ago at 10:38 PM. Reason: Add to last sentence |
|
|
|
|
|
#4 | ||
|
Council Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Upper Michigan
Posts: 1,733
|
Constitutional Questions
You certainly have been busy. Your first two posts are the stuff of which books are written - and many have been written, covering such "illustrious" US "constitutional" eras as WWI's German and Red Scares, WWII's German and Japanese Scares, the initial Cold War Red Scares, the Vietnam Era Domestic Radicals Scares, etc. You could go back further in our history to the Civil War, the Alien & Sedition Acts and finally to the Revolutionary War. For every action, there is a reaction (not necessarily equal or proportionate); and to that reaction, a reaction, etc., etc. Whether we are going to perdition in a handbasket depends very much on the people in office, but more so on the people who put them in office. Eventually, things tend to level out as folks on one side of an issue realize that their own oxen could be gored by the same LE measures they are advocating. People also begin to live with the threat that initially seemed so large. The sight of 3000 dead from 9/11 loomed large, but once people begin to compare it to the 110K that die each year in accidents (home, industrial and auto), that threat is placed in perspective. And those of us who lived through the early Cold Wars "duck and cover" and after, realize that the "GWOT" scenarios, even the most extreme (and hence unlikely), are frankly chump change (harsh words, but comparatively true). We are still maturing in this "GWOT" thing. ------------------------- Degrees of Separation The articles on AQ affiliation and degrees of separation are dear to my own heart (nice to see some re-inforcement), since I last beat that drum here about six weeks ago: Quote:
Quote:
The bright point in these cases is that people are informing. In "COIN" terms, we (USG) have not isolated ourselves from the people and they are doing what they as US citizens or resident aliens should be doing - turning on the bad guys. I will also add my mantra: the best defense a people have against terrorists is not to be terrorised - and retribution is best savored eaten with cold anger. Regards & thank you for the interesting (to me) links. Mike
__________________
JMM When I quit learning, I'll be dead. Crabtree's Bludgeon (updated) - No set of mutually inconsistent observations can exist for which some human intellect cannot conceive a coherent explanation, however complicated and implausible - credits: R.V. Jones & Hayden Peake. |
||
|
|
|
|
|
#5 | ||
|
Council Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,675
|
JMM in his comment referred to:
Quote:
In the UK there have been very few examples of public information on real plots; which has been commented upon in public statements. Northern Ireland was different, anecdote suggests for Republicans public information was not a significant factor and of greater use with Loyalists. One of the few open source articles that provides some context for the role of the public is from Turkey:http://ccj.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/23/2/142 (Behind a pay wall, although I have a copy) Quote:
davidbfpo Last edited by davidbfpo; 2 Weeks Ago at 10:56 PM. |
||
|
|
|
|
|
#6 |
|
Council Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,675
|
Changing the focus Bill Roggio provides a 2009 timeline of the US plots: http://www.longwarjournal.org/archiv...months_the.php
This misses one other plot (details tomorrow). davidbfpo |
|
|
|
|
|
#7 | |
|
Council Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,675
|
An indictment has been issued for an Alabama resident of Somali origin:
http://blog.al.com/live/2009/09/repo..._high_and.html Once again the mystery is why he was radicalised; limited comment in the story: Quote:
davidbfpo |
|
|
|
|
|
|
#8 |
|
Council Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Upper Michigan
Posts: 1,733
|
The indictment (one probably exists) is still sealed - so, the actual facts and charges are not known. There has been a good deal of media speculation about this case. Until al-Amriki is captured and returned to the States, speculation is what we are likely to know - except for his media efforts in Somalia if they continue.
__________________
JMM When I quit learning, I'll be dead. Crabtree's Bludgeon (updated) - No set of mutually inconsistent observations can exist for which some human intellect cannot conceive a coherent explanation, however complicated and implausible - credits: R.V. Jones & Hayden Peake. |
|
|
|
|
|
#9 |
|
Council Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Fort Leavenworth, KS
Posts: 37
|
JMM99, regarding your classifications, it seems to my legally untrained mind that there is (or should be) significant differences in your category 2, between US citizens, legal residents, and illegal aliens. As far as I'm concerned (this may not be the law) if they are illegal, and they get caught planning or conducting terrorism, we should shoot them for spies. Legal residents probalby have some more rights, while US citizens must have full constitutional protections.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#10 | |
|
Council Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Upper Michigan
Posts: 1,733
|
The classifications (probably as well or better expressed as patterns) are, as stated, for intelligence and military use.
A crime is a crime whether the perp is a US citizen, legal resident or illegal alien[*]. If the proceedings are in a Federal District Court, the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure apply; if the proceedings are before a military commission (MCA), its rules of procedure apply. The apparent choice has been made to try US citizens, legal residents, and some illegal aliens (or foreign nationals detained in foreign countries and extradited or rendered to the US) in Federal District Courts. The future of MCA trials has not been finally determined by the Obama administration. I find this interesting: Quote:
I suggest we throw the "Law" out the window for the moment. I'd have no moral or ethical qualms about judging all by myself someone charged with planning or conducting terrorism which led to loss of life; and also no moral or ethical qualms, if I found that person guilty of the charge, of my putting a round through his or her head. What and how I would do in the latter execution phase is something I honestly don't know. I might make a bloody hash of it. I do know that in the former trial phase, I would use exactly the same standard to determine guilt in a capital case (evidence beyond a reasonable doubt), regardless of whether the person before me was a US citizen, legal resident or illegal alien. Now, you are a field grade officer. So, perhaps, you might suggest a somewhat different process. A panel of three field grade officers ? Your standard for determining guilt ? Who does the shooting ? I'd be interested in hearing your views (and those of others) - remember the "Law" is out the window. We are talking morals and ethics. Regards Mike ----------------------------- [*] We could make some distinctions for certain crimes. E.g., Treason applies only to US citizens (and arguably to legal residents). Habeas rights differ depending on citizenship and (probably) legal residence status. Most of the crimes we talk about in War Crimes involve giving false information to Fed LE, providing material support for a terrorist organization, explosives & firearms violations and conspiracy to commit murder. No real distinction there on the crime charged based on status; but the venue (Fed Dist Ct or an MC) might be affected by status.
__________________
JMM When I quit learning, I'll be dead. Crabtree's Bludgeon (updated) - No set of mutually inconsistent observations can exist for which some human intellect cannot conceive a coherent explanation, however complicated and implausible - credits: R.V. Jones & Hayden Peake. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
#11 | |
|
Council Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,675
|
From another website:http://counterterrorismblog.org/2009..._lashkar-e.php
Quote:
davidbfpo |
|
|
|
|
|
|
#12 | |
|
Council Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,675
|
An odd story in the UK on the Zazi case:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...t-network.html
Quote:
davidbfpo |
|
|
|
|
|
|
#13 | |||
|
Council Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,675
|
A more unusual review of the Zazi case:http://www.juancole.com/2009/11/muel...his-is-it.html
Quote:
Quote:
Yes, I know Juan Cole and Mueller are not universally loved. From one of my favourite blogsites:http://www.schneier.com/blog/ Quote:
|
|||
|
|
|
![]() |
| Bookmarks |
| Tags |
| counter terrorism |
| Thread Tools | |
| Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads
|
||||
| Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
| Saddam Hussein Talks to the FBI | Jedburgh | Catch-All, OIF | 1 | 07-06-2009 03:06 PM |
| The FBI and Counterterrorism Intelligence | Jedburgh | Law Enforcement | 34 | 06-27-2009 10:53 AM |
| How Should the U.S. Execute a Surge in Afghanistan? | SWJED | OEF - Afghanistan | 43 | 01-25-2009 03:54 AM |
| Iraq Weapons Are a Focus of Criminal Investigations | tequila | US Policy, Interest, and Endgame | 3 | 08-31-2007 09:08 AM |
| FREE Software for Humanitarian Investigations - Efforts | bsiddell | NGO & Humanitarian | 1 | 05-07-2007 04:42 PM |