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#1 | |
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Council Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Montreal
Posts: 1,568
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By JEFFREY GETTLEMAN New York Times January 7, 2008 Quote:
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#2 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Denver on occasion
Posts: 1,803
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This an email I received from a Kenyan friend of mine:
"Dear Carl, >> Greetings.Your perception about kenya was right.We had always embraced peace untill after the elections were rigged. >> In the past 6 days i have seen what i failed to see in Congo. >> I have witnessed people being hacked to death.Tribes turning against other tribes. >> I have witnessed mothers carrying their babies on thier backs being shot in cold blood. >> The GSU(general service unit) a faction of Kenya police has been shooting youngmen and ladies unselectively. >> The scenes that i have seen in the Kisumu provincial Hospital Morgue are indeed ugly and disturbing.The akwardly pilled dead bodies,the gunshot wounds in them and the stinking blood that had oozed from their bodies onto the morgues floor are indeed sad memories. >> I saw much more that i can not be able to expalin in email. >> The shopping malls too have not been spared,gas stations have been burned down,pharmacies and all buildings belonging to particular tribes are no more. >> The effects of clinging to power by barbaric means are indeed costing the african people.This act is robbing the africans thier democratic rights.its maiming their brothers and sisters.Their sons and fathers are being killed for defending their rights. >> Indeed poor governance in african countries is root cause of evil. >> Best Regards," Perhaps this is bigger than the newspapers are letting on. |
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#3 | |
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Council Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Estonia
Posts: 3,582
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There's a decent blog at Allafrica from locals and expats. Adds that typical missing element from news reports.
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There are very few problems, which cannot be solved by the suitable application of High Explosives
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#4 | |
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Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Concord, MA
Posts: 3,043
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CSIS, 8 Jan 08: Kenya in Crisis
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#5 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 14
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I have to disagree with the basic assertion that the crisis in Kenya is simply the result of tribalism and corrupt politics. They are key factors and precipitated the current social unrest. However, there are far more fundamental and intractable issues at play and we over-simplify the debate at our peril.
I have read quite a few pieces on the crisis in the international media, particularly the NYT and WP. I have found them all wanting. I suggest a visit to Richard Dowden at the Royal African Society's website, http://www.royalafricansociety.org/ But I have been most impressed by an excellent Op-Ed piece in 08 Jan The Nation, a Kenyan daily newspaper. It is at http://www.nationmedia.com/dailynati...&newsid=114132 Like the author of the op-ed piece, Macharia Gaitho, I am not surprised at the crisis in Kenya, it's been a long time coming, but the factors have been in place for many years. What we are witnessing is a concatenation of events, most beyond the control of Kibaki, Odinga or any current leader. If anyone is interested to know on what authority I speak and to read my argument in its entirety, it is laid out at my overly-pretentious and painfully wordy blogsite Mars and Aesculapius, Kleptocracy in Crisis. I am happy to defend my position with anyone who reads this and takes issue with all or part. Last edited by Jedburgh; 01-22-2008 at 01:01 PM. Reason: Edited content, added link. |
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#6 | ||
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Council Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Estonia
Posts: 3,582
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Hey Barnsley,
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Taking a quick gander at your User Profile certainly leaves a lot in question. I'd recommend going here and introducing yourself versus asking Council Members to visit your blog. Perhaps once we've been sufficiently smothered in discussion, we'll gain an appreciation for your advice and experience. Regards, Stan
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There are very few problems, which cannot be solved by the suitable application of High Explosives
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#7 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 14
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Well done Stan!
I take your point you may have gathered that I am pretty inexperienced in the blogosphere but am keen to learn Its 6pm here in Lira northern uganda red hot and time for me to cook dinner I will get around to elaborating on my Kenya argument later I gather its freezing in the US Gosh! I miss it!! bob |
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#8 | |
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Council Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Estonia
Posts: 3,582
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All I asked you to do was respect the members herein and provide an otherwise simple introduction. I did not read your blog, but did scan your links. I spent more than a decade working in Sub-Sahara (7 countries). BTW, I live in Estonia (it says so right under my picture) and it's 1843 and fairly colder than Uganda ![]() As time permits you, please introduce yourself. Regards, Stan
__________________
There are very few problems, which cannot be solved by the suitable application of High Explosives
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#9 | |
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Council Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Estonia
Posts: 3,582
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Vernacular music has also been used to raise ethnic tensions.
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__________________
There are very few problems, which cannot be solved by the suitable application of High Explosives
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#10 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: currently in Washington DC
Posts: 320
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Jedburgh,
Thanks for the explanation. Can you please also edit my posts to make me sound a bit more intelligent? I'd like to be a bit more Kissingeresque, but I'm afraid I'm a bit more like Muskie. In an attempt to get the thread back on topic, I would like to ask all of you what you do if you could design a project or intervention to address the conflict in Kenya. Where would you start? Reconciliation? Root causes of poverty? Political reform? |
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#11 | ||
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Council Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Estonia
Posts: 3,582
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Quote:
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__________________
There are very few problems, which cannot be solved by the suitable application of High Explosives
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#12 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: currently in Washington DC
Posts: 320
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Stan,
Interesting connection between Kenya and Ukraine in 2004. The author writes "how Africa is no different than anywhere else". I understand her point, that on some surface levels, there are similarities (economic growth, corrupt government, election fraud, popular uprising). However, the Ukrainian revolution didn't break out into widespread violence. No question, the povery level and desperation is not comparable. And culturally and historically, there aren't too many similarities that I can point to. Other than saying that people of both countries are frustrated w/corrupt and inefficient governments (politicians), there isn't a lot else that's very similar. What's your perspective, having spent significant chunks of time in both Eastern Europe/NIS and Africa? |
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#13 | |
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Council Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Estonia
Posts: 3,582
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I’ll start by saying I like Anne’s “thinking out of the box” style and appreciate she’s been around Eastern Europe a long time as an investigative journalist. I don’t agree with her current train of thought, but decided to post it because of your unique position with USAID and physical location, and my background in Sub-Sahara. I agree, the similarities are shallow; social and political upheaval in Africa is little more than a daily occurrence. Estonia’s revolution was in fact a ‘singing revolution’ with no violence or political agenda whatsoever. Much like The Ukraine, Estonians just wanted the Soviets out and this has little to do with ‘on the edge of your seat’ tribal conflict and/or differences. There’s reference made to the violent uprising being seemingly preplanned because it “seemed as spontaneous as it was shocking, with machete-wielding mobs hacking people to death and burning women and children alive in a country that was celebrated as one of Africa’s most stable.” I think had the author been in Goma in 1994 for 40 days, she’d look at the 560 deaths as a mere drop in the bucket and would also better appreciate just how fast tribal related violence ‘fires up’. I was interested in your view regarding this ‘carrot’ with strings attached approach. It has never worked with any great success when greed and corruption come into play. Why would it then work so much better in Kenya ?
__________________
There are very few problems, which cannot be solved by the suitable application of High Explosives
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#14 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: currently in Washington DC
Posts: 320
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Stan,
The article she refers to is about civil society organizations calling for donors to withhold aid until Kenya makes certain reforms. That's more like stick and carrot. Interestingly, the Catholic church opposed this, saying that reconciliation and healing will take time and the donors shouldn't given conditions to the government. The problem with withholding aid is that aid becomes not a carrot (strings or not), but a weapon. for that, there are economic sanctions and other measures. Reminds me of the situation in Palestinian Territories after Hamas won the election. It was a legitimate election by the reports I read. Holding back aid might have hurt Hamas, but it probably hurt the Palestinian people more. Anyway, getting back to the carrot with strings. The carrot always has strings. You never get something for nothing, eh. I think aid agencies would like the carrot to be tied to a string which is tied to a stick which is leading the donkey forward. You give aid and assistance with the understanding that the government will participate, that it will make certain changes, that it will move forward. As for greed and corruption, donor money is hard to get. There are way too many easier ways to make money. But, I think many governments have become quite adept at speaking the speak and attracting donor money, then foot-dragging, confusing things, using rhetoric in place of action, etc. Or use donor money to fund government services or programs and then divert that money to other purposes (Ahem, Ethiopia). Lastly, i would also say donors are often hesitant to face corruption head on, so you see a lot of anti-corruption projects focused on civil society monitoring and media (Ahem, Millenium Challenge Corporation, or MCC). Okay, I've probably said way too much....and now everybody knows my secret identity (batman is bruce wayne...or perhaps more appropriately, Robin is...well, Robin, I guess. Poor kid.) Eric |
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#15 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Estonia
Posts: 3,582
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Eric,
That's the way I understood the article, but it seems that attempts to pressure the African government by "starving out the population" would result in even further violent conditions -- as the pres gnaws on his tenderloin with sauce béarnaise watching televised reports of starving people ![]() Regarding greed and corruption, I was thinking like a Zairian for a second: With the arrival of goods at the airport. There's obviously 'customs duties' and damaged crates and otherwise (ahem) bureaucratic procedures to follow. Obviously, Kenya's elite are not all that concerned about transparency, and could easily blame missing donations on the current situation - Basically what Zaire did way back when. Regards, Stan PS. I stopped watchin' Batman when they replace the Joker, Jack Nicholson
__________________
There are very few problems, which cannot be solved by the suitable application of High Explosives
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#16 | |
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Council Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: DeRidder LA
Posts: 3,949
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Quote:
What is going on in Kenya offers a larger lesson for those who tribalism as a substitute for states rights in a setting like Iraq. Kenya's splits are more complex but are nonetheless purely ethnic versus the tribal, ethnic, and religious schisms we deal with in Iraq. Ethnic/political driven corruption destroyed the Congo under Mobutu, who with western backing was able to keep a lid on things until the end of the Cold War when that western backing fragmented. Kenya has over the past 4 decades followed a similar but less apparent glide path with political corruption fueled by ethnic divisions. Kenya's geostrategic role has made it an important partner to the US and the West in general; like the Congo/Zaire that relationship has helped offset these problems but they have been there since Kenyatta's days. Final thought is you have to be very careful to not dismiss such conflicts as just an another ethnic blood bath in Africa because in such a tribally-based society, ethnicity is the basis for politics. Cultural, ethnic, and racial differences are often political in their effect simply because they define who has power and who does not. Such differences cannot be erased by decree but they can be mitigated over time through communication and education. However when large scale eruptions such as this one occur, the effects are long lasting, self-sustaining, and unfortunately reinforcing. Best Tom |
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#17 | |
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Council Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: DeRidder LA
Posts: 3,949
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At the AU Summit
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Tom |
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#18 | |
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Council Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Montreal
Posts: 1,568
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It remains to be seen whether Ki-moon, Annan, and the AU can move the parties to a political agreement that would deescalate the current situation, but I think this is a clear case where the oft-maligned UN and AU have potential for conflict prevention (or, more accurately, conflict deescalation) that others don't. The rest of the international community has been publicly supportive, but one hopes that local embassies and HQS can coordinate an effective common front to support the primary mediators. This was done well in support of the peace process in Mozambique in 1992-94, and done poorly--and with tragic consequences--in Angola in 1992 and Rwanda prior to the genocide. Also, there is some discussion of the Kenya crisis and AFRICOM on Abu Muqawama. |
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#19 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 1,651
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From what little I know about the Kenyan military, it is dominated by Kalenjin, Maasai, and other "minority" officers, a holdover from the Moi regime --- that is, those who are primarily in opposition to the Kibaki government. There were occasional rumors during Kibaki's tenure that Kalenjin officers would launch a coup against Kibaki, but this never occurred and thusfar the Army has remained firmly on the side of the government.
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#20 | |
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Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Concord, MA
Posts: 3,043
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ICG, 21 Feb 08: Kenya in Crisis
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