About This Forum: Social Sciences, Moral and Religious

[Martin]

I haven't read it (Oh God! Another book on the "to read" pile!!!!). I read the Federalist papers quite some time ago. Maybe I'll go back and reread them after the "to read" pile drops a bit lower .

Marc

Those old books are quite interesting in their ways, finished Common Sense a few weeks ago. I still prefer the stories from people with experience on the ground though, Contra Cross is up next along with Unfettered Mind.

How does your theory of symbolic warfare differ from PSYOPs and related? Is it a subset expansion?

M

[marct]

Hi Martin,

How does your theory of symbolic warfare differ from PSYOPs and related? Is it a subset expansion?

It's still in the "visual stage" - I'm a visual thinker which means I think in pictures rather than words. It's still not clear as a picture, yet, although some of the elements are fairly clear.

I'd have to say that it is pretty far away from PSYOPs in general; it's closer to Dave Kilcullen's Framework and the larger model in his Countering Global Insurgency, but with a chunk of Korzybski's General Semantics and some stuff on perceptual topologies. I'm hoping to have a rough paper together on it in the next couple of months.

Marc

[Martin]

Hi Marc,

Hi Martin,

It's still in the "visual stage" - I'm a visual thinker which means I think in pictures rather than words. It's still not clear as a picture, yet, although some of the elements are fairly clear.

I'd have to say that it is pretty far away from PSYOPs in general; it's closer to Dave Kilcullen's Framework and the larger model in his Countering Global Insurgency, but with a chunk of Korzybski's General Semantics and some stuff on perceptual topologies. I'm hoping to have a rough paper together on it in the next couple of months.

Marc

It will be interesting to read what you come up with. I have a feeling you are so well read that when you mention a few sources, you are actually stretching across many other fields and possibilities.

However, I have a hard time understanding how methodologies under the header Symbolic Warfare, operating primarily on the mind in individual and varying group contexts, can be so far away from psychological operations, or even if it is, may not still expand the category. That it can be operated in the environment defined by Kilcullen does not change its methodological category... or maybe I'm completely lost?
I'm just really curious, don't take it as discouragement. If you want to elaborate, please do. Otherwise I'll try to shut up for a while.

I like Kilcullen.

M

[Beelzebubalicious]

I used to think to think I knew something about everything until I started communicating with Marc, but now I realize that I know nothing about everything...actually, I used to think I knew something about anthropology (I have a masters in applied anthro) until I started reading Marc's reply and that's even given the fact he's trying to make it simple!

Just a small point. I've been in situations (japan, Africa) where I feel so different and "outside" that all those differences stand out and seem obvious. Yet, it's the similarities that struck me. And in those countries for which I was more familiar and like the populace (Ukraine) I found I assumed similarity when it wasn't really there (or true) and had a harder time understanding (perhaps given my assumptions).

One last thing. I know many hard core anthropologists think Edward hall was either not rigorous or pure for their preference, but I have found that the way he breaks down culture easy(ier) to understand and that he explains culture in real, every day terms is helpful. I think some of his work has been misunderstood and misused (turned in to simplistic scales of high vs. Low context, etc), but when I first started learning about culture and anthro, I thought it was useful.

[Rob Thornton]

what I really like about talking to Marc is it almost always leads me to consider things in new and interesting ways. The discussions we've had on epistemology have really been useful in helping me think - although they have occasionally sent me in search of more beer

Best, Rob

[Beelzebubalicious]

e-pissed-emology?

[Rob Thornton]

That is worth a big grin. Its a bit like reading the likes of David Hume - except you have to hear an obligatory Canadian "ehh" and you don't have to eat haggis

I was looking for a Hume quote - I think I remember one from the treatise on the senses about billiard balls and beer - but since I cannot find it this one is a pretty good one:

"If we take in our hand any volume; of divinity or school metaphysics, for instance; let us ask, "Does it contain any abstract reasoning concerning quantity or number?" No. "Does it contain any experimental reasoning concerning matter of fact and existence?" No. Commit it then to the flames: for it can contain nothing but sophistry and illusion."

Best, Rob