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  1. #1
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    Default To OUTLAW 09 RE: Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09
    …the rebels for the last several years have stated...push out Assad and then we can focus and will focus on IS as they are not Syrians...
    Then who will succeed him as leader of the Alawi/Christian/Druze faction?

    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09
    …IF and I use the term IF..if in fact Obama had been willing to completely ground the Syrian AF and their helicopters there would have been no

    1. sarin gas attacks
    2. no chlorine barrel bombs
    3. no barrel bombs
    4. limited very limited refugee flows towards Europe
    5. would have greatly limited starvation...ethnic cleansings
    6. potentially facilitated the removal of Assad
    RE:

    1. Not necessarily. Assad could have used rocket artillery
    2. See above
    3. Russia and Iran could have intervened with their airpower in 2013 to replace the SyAAF
    4. Not necessarily. What of rockets and shells?
    5. How so? Most of that is done on the ground
    6. Or the direct intervention of Iran and Russia on Assad’s behalf


    Quote Originally Posted by CROWBAT 09
    The key even today is in fact the removal of Assad as the majority of his society the Sunni's demand it…BUT it clashes with the Iranian green crescent objectives...
    His “society” now consists of Alawi, Christian and Druze Arabs, living primarily in the governorates of Latakia, Tartus, As-Suwayda and parts of Homs, Hama, Daraa, Rif Dimashq, Damascus and others.

    There is no way that the minorities, be they Kurds, Alawis, Christians or Druze, are going to peacefully accept majority rule by the Sunni Arabs and face a possible “tyranny of the majority”. The best that the Sunni Arabs can hope for are population transfers for mixed areas and border demarcations of the variety carried out in East-Central Europe in the aftermath of World War II.

    Quote Originally Posted by CROWBAT 09
    Simply stated no Iranian troops and no Russian troops and AF...should remain in Syria otherwise I hate to say this we will see an actual partition of Syria into an Assad zone...a Sunni/Turkish zone and a Kurdish zone setting up conflict in Syria for the next two decades at a minimum...
    Partitioning the country and imposing ceasefires is the solution. While the Russian and Iranian forces could retreat to Assad’s enclave in the west, any Iranian-led mercenaries attempting to commit ethnic or sectarian cleansing of mixed areas with Sunni Arabs should be considered as FTOs and targeted in the same manner as Daesh and Khorasan.

    Face it, Syria is a failed and fractured state. You had might as well pine for Yugoslavia to be pieced back together.

    Quote Originally Posted by CROWBAT 09
    BTW check the posted map which clearly now depicts this green crescent that I have been writing about here since say about the late 2004 timeframe and now in 2017 we are seeing in an accurate map...the "green crescent"...
    Yes, Teheran does have imperial ambitions. Yet it is wasting resources to preserve by force what it had already obtained by “soft power” by 2011. Teheran is unconcerned that Lebanon is not a unitary Shia-led state, and it should have moved toward allowing for similar federalism in Iraq and Syria, rather than allowing and/or spurring its allies there to provoke civil wars.

    Quote Originally Posted by CROWBAT 09
    ,..I am after participating in three wars in my lifetime not a warmonger by any means…I believe that diplomacy has it's place but when it fails one must be able and willing to use force to resolve issues...
    Yet what of the ongoing mass murder and development of WMDs in North Korea? What of the ongoing mass murder and war crimes in Sudan, South Sudan and other parts of Africa? What of ethnic and sectarian cleansing in Myanmar?

    Your interest in applying force is confined to a particular region, when the U.S. has global interests. Moreover, the “humanitarian” interventions in Yugoslavia and Libya did far more to damage U.S. relations with its rivals and adversaries than the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq ever did. Merely because YouTube isn’t abounding with footage, doesn’t mean that the paramilitaries and indeed militaries of Africa, have stopped raping, murdering, torturing, maiming and pillaging.

    Quote Originally Posted by CROWBAT 09
    ...Notice the crescent shape of the map...then expand that crescent into AFG and on to Pakistan....THEN you will notice that it accurately follows the old Silk Trading Road…
    Pakistan (and formerly Iraq) is the reason why Iran has a nuclear weapons program, in addition to state security. Israel is a diversion, not unlike how Russia violates the INF Treaty in response to China not NATO.

    Iran has to be very careful with Pakistan, lest the ISI fire up Iran’s Balochis and Sunnis in reply. Nor can the Iranian military defeat Pakistan’s. Even with Indian support, Pakistan is backstopped with nuclear weapons, albeit the U.S. does have a costly and uncertain contingency plan for securing them.

    Quote Originally Posted by CROWBAT 09
    ... But bombs can never substitute for a strategic foreign policy in a set strategy. Bombing simply covers up that fact as it is again simply a tactical move on the FP battlefield...kind of like lashing out with no thought behind it to just prove how strong you are...AND that you can go it alone...
    It worked for Clinton, who was able to successfully kick a number of cans down the road, from non-proliferation to counter-terrorism. It also worked for Obama, who far from engaging with the Muslim world, pursued a strategy of containment and attrition via airpower.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azor View Post

    Face it, Syria is a failed and fractured state. You had might as well pine for Yugoslavia to be pieced back together.
    Syria is actually not a truly failed state...if the fighting can be stopped...take a serious look at what the FSA negotiators have proposed...really take a serious look at their proposals....

    Couple it with the ground reality....when FSA had the opportunity to retaliate IE as had the Shia...THEY DID NOT...take the single water source for all of Damascus...they protected it and never did shut it off....take the two Shia enclaves which were removed in ethnic cleansing exchanges...they never fired rockets into the civilian population as did Ass ad and Iran....take the ongoing fighting in Hama that now Assad forces took over two major Christian towns to launch attacks of the FSA and FSA refrained to fighting anywhere near them and reached out to them to ensure they knew they would not be attacked....

    THEN take Aleppo...they never did in all the fighting actually attack western Aleppo which was literally next door...why civilians ..FSA and it's related units have a long history of not attacking civilians wherever possible.

    AND Assad....civilians to not matter especially if they are Sunni's....

    Go back to the very start of the rebellion....and seriously recheck every move Assad as made against civilians...THEN tell me if Assad ad his clan is removed things cannot go forward towards a long term peaceful resolution..

    BTW....why is there interest the Iranians for Assad...Assad is from a Shia offshoot which many do not seem to fully understand just as a number of the Shia enclaves are Shia 12ers or 5ers...not really formally recognized even by Iran but heck all Shia even the offshoots are still Shia in Iranian eyes...

    So partition would doom the entire ME...just as it has long term in Yugoslavia....but in reality it was the iron hand of Tito that kept it together....

    You really do need to fully understand far more than you do about ground reality in both Syria and Iraq...

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    BTW...all these media reports about the "messaging behind the use of TLAMs and MOABs"...are to me nothing but "fake news" as their use did not influence......or change any political opinions nor impress anyone .....those that the US are concerned deeply with IE Syria....Russia....Iran and NK could not care in the least...they drive on their own agendas and have their own military capacities that they are comfortable with and a cruise missile or a 22,000 lb single bomb that takes an entire C130 to deliver and which would never survive an ADA2 environment...how is that "impressing"....

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    Azor...really go back and analyze the US Iranian deal and you will agee with my running critique of Obama in Syria....he fully and completely allowed with his approval the Iranian regional hegemony over Iraq and Syria ....this view was also restated clearly and concisely in his 20K word interview and further reinforced by the Ben Rhodes interview...all available to read....

    So in some ways the Iranian involvement is a given from their perspective as it is their view also for Iraq....guaranteed by the Iran deal..

    By entering Syria in large Shia militia numbers all they are doing is fulfilling what they assume to be their "natural rights" allowed them by Obama and company.

    With Trump we have absolutely no strategy to speak of on either IS...Iran and or Russia...well maybe not Russia as Trump has never said a single word of disapproval of anything Putin does....and needs their money for his business empire...

    Trump's current "Wag the Dog" moments reminds me of the lone pirate walking in a cave full of 100s of lbs of loose gunpowder carrying a flaming torch....with signs all around stating..."no open flames"....

    This President is the least informed about world politics...the least educated in actual politics and actually the least overall educated of many of the former Presidents and on top of it an individual who in the business world had no morals in massively over leveraging his Ponzi scheme which needs a constant capital flow to survive....

    So carrying an open flame into a cave full of gun powder is OK for him....he does not care after the second and third order of effects he creates...

    I do.
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 04-15-2017 at 07:09 AM.

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    THIS is example what I mean....while the entire MSM talks about the TLAM and MOAB strikes and how suddenly Trump has changed...WHICH if one carefully reads his and his merry band of brothers comments...he has not changed a single previous statement....

    Things are developing in Europe that the MSM is not seeing because of all the Trump "chatter" about his strikes....

    North Korea tensions are grabbing all the attention. Something really not-funny going on in Europe.

    Hint: Large parts of Russian armed forces are on alert due "winter training period checks"

    Russia has alerted 3 motorized brigades in the far east. Units are moving out of garrisons and relocating.

    Actually the entire Russian military is on a full war time snap alert...the ENTIRE Russian military and it is not "winter"...it is "spring" so this Russian MoD statement alone is false....

    They had just completed those checks a full month ago so why the sudden war time snap re-alert????

    If you redeploy aircraft during Easter you don´t do it just for fun. F-35A to Europe this weekend
    https://theaviationist.com/2017/04/1...ekend/#…
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 04-15-2017 at 07:36 AM.

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    FrolovLeaks: Goebbels of the Patriarch, Recruitment of Ukrainian Generals and Baptism by Fire in Syria. Episode IV
    https://informnapalm.org/en/frolovle...a-episode-iv/#

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    Azor...appears Assad still has tons of CWs left....and the Russians virtually guaranteed it was all gone both to the US and to the UNSC.....

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...apons-former/#

    SO silence out of the Trump WH and his merry band of brothers this morning on this UK report which seems to be confirmed if one if one rereads a number of recent comments by the UN OPCW......

    So "Wag the Dog" does not exist???

    Otherwise we would be seeing far more TLAM strikes as the US has the same data as does OPCW.....AND trump issued his "red line on CWs did he not"....

    Simple solution to hinder the use of CWs..hinder the delivery mechanism...aircraft and helicopters....he does not have the CW shells for artillery...

  8. #8
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    Default To OUTLAW 09 RE: Trump

    I'm well aware of your disdain for Obama's "secret protocol" with Khamenei that is reminiscent of Stalin and Churchill, and Stalin and Hitler, for that matter. There, some reductio ad Hitlerum for you...

    You forget that the accusations of Trump being a Russian agent coincided with the transfer of Neo-Conservative support to Clinton in 2016, effectively concentrating all hawks and interventionists under one tent.

    Subsequently, we saw the serving and past CIA Directors openly declare for Clinton, as well as many former NSC members. The more political former members of the defense, intelligence and foreign policy establishments were very vocal about their support for Clinton.

    Had Clinton been elected, one could argue that this support was indicative of a consensus that could develop a grand strategy, carried out on a whole-of-government basis.

    Yet her defeat was worrisome. How could these former insiders and leaders of these institutions claim that their institutions were impartial, let alone prepared to serve under Trump? Were their political opinions not representative to a significant degree of those of these bureaucracies?

    Much of this establishment is now breathing a sigh of relief, with the notable exceptions of the CIA and State Dept. This relief has naturally been reflected in the media coverage.

    Personally, it seems as though the election of Trump has dealt a blow to the gradual movement toward technocracy and the blending of political and military leadership.

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