Norway attacks: what happened and the implications (new title)

[Bill Moore]

The PST -- the Norwegian Police Security Force, somewhat comparable to the British MI5 -- concluded in its most recent publicly available risk analysis, published in February, that right-wing extremists posed “no serious threat.”

Dayuhan, I am in no position to know what the right wing threat is in Norway, but I also don't think one madman (a condition that tends to manifest itself in every nation) constitutes a grave threat trend. If there are additional planned or actual attacks conducted by the far right indicating a conspiracy then the threat would be high in my view.

[JMA]

Dayuhan, I am in no position to know what the right wing threat is in Norway, but I also don't think one madman (a condition that tends to manifest itself in every nation) constitutes a grave threat trend. If there are additional planned or actual attacks conducted by the far right indicating a conspiracy then the threat would be high in my view.

Well they have now had their wake up call.

I guess that as they saw “no serious threat” they would have been unprepared for any such eventuality and as such the criticism of the response time for armed police to arrive at the island is unfair given the state of readiness the police would have been at. I suggest that under the circumstances the response was good (given the distraction of the bomb blast and all).

[Dayuhan]

Dayuhan, I am in no position to know what the right wing threat is in Norway, but I also don't think one madman (a condition that tends to manifest itself in every nation) constitutes a grave threat trend. If there are additional planned or actual attacks conducted by the far right indicating a conspiracy then the threat would be high in my view.

Didn't mean to suggest that the analysis was deficient - based on the information they would have had available it was probably a reasonable conclusion - only that it was no secret, and that you wouldn't need Wikileaks to be aware of it.

[Bill Moore]

JMA and Dayuhan,

No issue with either response. The right wing, Islamist, left wing terrorist threat in Norway may be real or imagined, but there is still the issue of the criminal threat (the madman who killed 10s of Norweigans) and the terribly slow response to one gun man that in my opinion should compel the gov to relook their policing procedures.

I have the unpopular opinion that although we generally respond quicker in the U.S. our so called SWAT teams (in many of our smaller cities they're largely composed of overweight, under trained police who obviously don't this responsibility seriously) will wait outside a building (name your school shooting) "assessing" the situation while innocents are being murdered.

It won't get any better with the current financial challenges in the U.S..

[ganulv]

I have the unpopular opinion that although we generally respond quicker in the U.S. our so called SWAT teams (in many of our smaller cities they're largely composed of overweight, under trained police who obviously don't this responsibility seriously) will wait outside a building (name your school shooting) "assessing" the situation while innocents are being murdered.

That’s just resources, though, isn’t it? Small town law enforcement agencies just can’t afford full-time SWAT types, and even if they could I don’t know that there would be enough individuals with the right mix of talents and motivations to fill the posts, not to mention the time and expense of training up those who do. Now, by ‘small town’ I mean those communities of 500–10,000 people like most in the area where I grew up. But if by ‘smaller cities’ you mean communities of 250,000 or more the reasonable expectations may well be different (and if you have a unit you feel fit to call a SWAT team I would think you could at the very least require the members to be physically fit).

[JMA]

I have the unpopular opinion that although we generally respond quicker in the U.S. our so called SWAT teams (in many of our smaller cities they're largely composed of overweight, under trained police who obviously don't this responsibility seriously) will wait outside a building (name your school shooting) "assessing" the situation while innocents are being murdered.

Opinion? That sounds like a fact to me.

Raising and exposing painful home truths is never a popular activity as they tend to want to shoot the messenger.

Why even around here...

[Ken White]

Howsomeever, there is a fair amount of shooting at dubious messages and even more at good messages poorly delivered in an antagonistic or condescending tone...

Seems fair.

[Bob's World]

When I worked with Local, County, State and Federal LEAs in my home state I was always curious why so many small towns created SWAT. Even with great training, one has to have a large gene pool to draw from first. Michaelangelo spent much longer looking for the perfect block of marble than he did actually carving the David once he'd made his selection.

Most communiites would be better served by having 1-2 guys who train with a larger city SWAT, who can act in a pinch as shooters, or more likely as liaisons to facilitate bringing in the main team once needed. The lure of black velcro is strong, though, and everyone wants to be a cool guy...

[Bill Moore]

Most communiites would be better served by having 1-2 guys who train with a larger city SWAT, who can act in a pinch as shooters, or more likely as liaisons to facilitate bringing in the main team once needed. The lure of black velcro is strong, though, and everyone wants to be a cool guy...

The bottom line is:

If you're an obese cop that can't sprint, lift and carry a person, run up stairs and climb a ladder quickly with kit on, shoot well under pressure (to include after rapidly deploying by running to a position where you can engage) you're a phony pretending to be a SWAT officer. You don't take your job seriously.

If your organization is too risk adverse to allow your team to take a risk and enter a school/hospital etc. while a shooter is active and you have less than perfect intelligence, then the citizens have a right to question why they're funding a SWAT team.

Black velcro would be more appropriate than trying to look like a tree inside a building

That is my politically incorrect rant for July.