Hi Sarajevo,

Quote Originally Posted by Sarajevo071 View Post
If I mistype my apologies but I didn’t meant to say that people here denying bad things happened, what I am trying to say is that when those are happened you will not jump to denounce those and call for justice (like you denounce and accusing “other side” putting more and more people into that one group instead to look at that ONE incident and ONE person or ONE group who did it). When US soldiers kill or rape you all here say "let's wait for official statements or court proceedings", but when attack came from another side you are all full of judgments and “solutions”. Another thing is, when US soldiers kill innocent people, that’s always accidents and someone else’s fault but not when others do something and innocents get killed. Is not possible other making “mistakes” too?
I'm afraid that may be part of human nature . Speaking only to the case of Iraq and Afghanistan, I certainly agree with you that that is the public reaction. Let me pull out some of the different factors, though.

First, in both Iraq and Afghanistan, US and Coalition troops are, technically, operating in support of the government (A government might be a better descriptor, but the constructed social context is of the government). There are certain things that go with this, in particular actually having access to the people who may (or may not) have committed the "atrocity" (I put that in quotes since all that initially exists is an accusation, not because I'm denying that they have or may happen). So it is both easy and generally viewed as legitimate (via a supposed rule of law) to require that there be investigations, hearings, etc. Within the general context of Western legal systems, one of the first claims of innocence is almost always "it was an accident".

Now we come to the other sides...

The supposed perpetrators (again, let's toss out a presumption of innocence) are not readily accessible. They cannot be investigated, or even identified most of the time, although the crime scene can examined. Certain radical irhabi elements have established a pattern of action that, contrary to the Qu'ran, is indiscriminate in its killings (e.g. suicide bombers, IEDs, etc.). This constructs almost any action taken by "them" (whoever THAT may be !), as being controlled not by "law" but by the breaking of "law" (of all types). The worst part about all of this is that quilt is established by association and not by trial because a trial is impossible at present.

You asked if it was possible for the other to make mistakes - of course it is! No question about that at all. But how can you tell? How often does an irhabi group apologize for an "atrocity"? How often do they punish the people who committed it? And, most importantly for this current discussion, how often are these apologies and punishments reported in the Western media which is, after all, one of the main sources of how perceptions are formed in the West (and we are talking about Western attitudes here)?

Sarajevo, I know you could turn around and point to cases where atrocities have been committed by Western forces that have never been brought to trial. Let me save you the trouble; yes they exist (the Blackwater case in Baghdad being a great example). This really does make me angry - from all that I have heard, those SOBs should have been tried, convicted and, IMHO, executed for their actions. I hope they will be tried in the future. I honestly see hat case, and one or two others I have heard of, as the irhabi getting away with their crimes (BTW, I have no hesitation in using that term either). At the same time, I think that it is crucial to note that other irhabi groups are getting away with their crimes.

Quote Originally Posted by Sarajevo071 View Post
Only reasons US “helped” was from the fear that white, European Muslims will get to hate US and fall under influence of Arab Mujahidden. C’mon, let’s be honest. You waited 3 years to put boots on the ground to help Muslims and only 3 months to go in and help Christians in East Timor?
Nah, here I think you are really wrong - I honestly don't think that the vast majority of the US cares what white, European Muslims think about them - they know that all Europeans hate the US ! With a few exceptions, and I'll admit some of them are prominent, this is not about religion so much as it is about realpolitik.