Women in Military Service & Combat (not just USA)

[baduin]

The topic of women in combat used to be unusually divisive, and this in general causes the discussion to devolve into senseless name-calling. In this thread, however, there was a number of eminently insightful comments which together caused me to change my view on the "women in combat" problem.

We don't have a great track record with "separate but equal" through myriad flavors of segregation, and "separate + unequal" has all kinds of problems, too. Your idea addresses one issue (intramural sex) but is rife with many others.

Exactly so. All historical armies -except the West - kept different social or ethnic groups as separate units in the army. The Western tradition always demanded full equality, and any instance of different treatment was an aberration which had finally to give way (even if sometimes it took centuries). Female-only military units in the modern West are unimaginable.

Therefore, some obvious facts:
1) Women, on average, make much worse soldiers than men.

Please, be all means explain to me how this is a FACT and not an OPINION that you ASSUMED to be true.

Generally, the distinction between FACT and OPINION is that facts are external reality, which is accessible to other men (eg when I say that grass is blue, one can walk outside and check it oneself). Opinions are individual mental states which are inaccessible to other people, (when I say that I think that there are too many Jews in ruling elites, you can believe me or not, but it is generally assumed that there is no way to check whether I really think this or not).

In addition, at present it is assumed that all FACTs must be provable scientifically - ie when I say that God exists, it is an opinion, not a fact.

Facts can be divided into true or false. Opinions, as my first example shows, are divided into commendable, neutral and distateful and forbidden. For example, if I express an opinion that Jews, non-white races, women etc are inferior, should not be allowed to vote etc, I will not be accepted in polite society, I can be fired from work or appropriately punished as a member of armed forces.

Now, there is NO SCIENTIFIC PROOF that women are worse soldiers than men. There were no proper experiments etc. The lack of historical examples makes any statistic reasearch impossible, and anyway it would be tainted by the issue of misogyny amongst the commanders, other units and the enemy.

Therefore it necessarily follows that the idea that women on average make worse soldiers is an OPINION. It remains to consider whether such an opinion is commendable or otherwise.

The problem is almost always misogynist males. And you know what? The Army would be better without them.

Precisely so! The opinion that women are worse soldiers is a misogynist and hateful opinion which is not to be allowed in polite society. All who express such an opinion should be properly punished.

In addition, all apparent instances when women underperfom in combat (I know of no such examples, of course, and consider only hypothetical accusations) will be and must be caused by misogyny in male soldiers. For that reason the fact there there will be no all-female units is against very advantageous.

Because of those considerations women must and will be part of all military specialities, including combat ones. In fact, in many Western European armies, which generally are not expected to fight often or against dangerous opponents, women are already allowed to serve in combat. American armed forces managed to avoid that natural development since they fight more frequently. It is, however, not a real obstacle.

In addition to the above post, so-called "minimum PT standards" much like certain medical qualifications/disqualifications are based on a completely bull#### "SHTF" scenario that presupposes that some kind of superhuman effort by all members of a unit may be necessary.

And it will NOT be necessary, because let us be serious - American army will never fight a high intensity conflict against near-equal opponent. The possibility of heavy losses and even defeat absolutely precludes this from the political point of view in a war of choice. And since USA is situated in America, all its wars are wars of choice.

Therefore, all combat will be against desperately inferior enemy. Therefore it is not a problem to arrange the combat enviroment (eg by using air support, artillery, drones etc), so that any fight can be won comfortably, without any unecessary "superhuman" effort by all members of a unit.

In addition, since America increasingly relies on various mercenary units, all those tasks which for various reasons the regular forces find inconvenient can be performed by mercenaries.

Therefore, it seems to me that there are no reason not to accept women in combat units.