Mechanized Infantry Perceptions 2010

[gute]

Or you can use light infantry to their strengths. Dominate areas where vehicles are unsuitable (the mountains inside Afghanistan), conduct persistent, economy-of-effort security operations around rural populations and fight the enemy on his own terms (light, away from predictable routes and in areas he doesn't expect it).

I was reading some comments made by Mike Sparks (I don't know much about him, but he seems to be controversial) regarding infantry and it's use. He doesn't seem to have much use for light infantry claiming only about 10% of the earth's land mass is not easily accessible, which would require true light infantry. His reasoning seems sound.

[ganulv]

He doesn't seem to have much use for light infantry claiming only about 10% of the earth's land mass is not easily accessible, which would require true light infantry.

10% of a dollar is .10¢ but 10% of our planet’s surface area is about 51,000,000 km2.

If I didn't have crews that knew their tracks, we'd never get them repaired. The maintenance section doesn't have enough people to do the work. I've watched my crews repair damage in hours, with no mechanic on site.

I know a fellow who was an LAV crewman and he has described a relationship with the mechanics that didn’t sound to me to be outright antagonistic but apparently wasn’t exactly cozy, either.

[Ken White]

Chris jM:

Truly excellent and thoughtful post.

Gute:

Assess anything from Sparks with caution. He's wedded to the M113 as the epitome of mil tech.

With reference to terrain, as ganulv illustrates, 10%, even if accurate is relative. I doubt that figure is accurate and it's in any event totally immaterial. Terrain is but one item in the METT-TC dictum and that dictum should always be assessed in totality and applied to forces to be committed.

You do not fight terrain, you fight people. There are over 400 cities in or on accessible terrain worldwide that have over a million people; in 2008, roughly half the world population was classified as urban. One can use heavy forces in cities but there's a cost and Light or regular Infantry is better suited. That doesn't even address jungle, the Taiga or Mountains where vehicles can go but are sometimes tactically disadvantageous.

There's a place and use for all and too many wars have proven that "One size fits all" is not a good solution. A parochial approach similar to the one espoused by Sparks and too many others as well as the equally bad 'universalist' approach is unwise.

[gute]

Chris jM:

Truly excellent and thoughtful post.

Gute:

Assess anything from Sparks with caution. He's wedded to the M113 as the epitome of mil tech.

With reference to terrain, as ganulv illustrates, 10%, even if accurate is relative. I doubt that figure is accurate and it's in any event totally immaterial. Terrain is but one item in the METT-TC dictum and that dictum should always be assessed in totality and applied to forces to be committed.

You do not fight terrain, you fight people. There are over 400 cities in or on accessible terrain worldwide that have over a million people; in 2008, roughly half the world population was classified as urban. One can use heavy forces in cities but there's a cost and Light or regular Infantry is better suited. That doesn't even address jungle, the Taiga or Mountains where vehicles can go but are sometimes tactically disadvantageous.

There's a place and use for all and too many wars have proven that "One size fits all" is not a good solution. A parochial approach similar to the one espoused by Sparks and too many others as well as the equally bad 'universalist' approach is unwise.

I probably did not explain things well enough. I think Sparks was trying to make the point that most of the world population is located in areas which are accessible to "Stryker like" infantry (in M113 Gavins I would assume).

So, light and regular infantry are better suited for urban warfare? It seems that after the Thunder Runs and battles of Fallujah 11/04, Mosul, Najaf there were many (not saying here at SWJ) advocating heavy armor in cities - that we had made it work unlike the Russians in Grozny?

[Ken White]

So, light and regular infantry are better suited for urban warfare? It seems that after the Thunder Runs and battles of Fallujah 11/04, Mosul, Najaf there were many (not saying here at SWJ) advocating heavy armor in cities - that we had made it work unlike the Russians in Grozny?

M E TT-TC (emphasis added / kw). It can work, just as armor can be employed in the jungle -- but in both cases, you better know what you're doing and / or be significantly more competent than your opponent.

We made a terrible mistake -- one which many in the Army warned against -- in basing many things on the flawed learning of 'lessons' from Operation Desert Storm. One hundred casualties in 100 hours is not a war and the only lesson is that it's unlikely to be repeatable...

On the first item you mentioned, "accessible" and effective conduct of combat operations are not always synonymous activities. Rarely are, in fact. Regardless, I still question the figure -- and still contend it's immaterial...

[ganulv]

So, light and regular infantry are better suited for urban warfare? It seems that after the Thunder Runs and battles of Fallujah 11/04, Mosul, Najaf there were many (not saying here at SWJ) advocating heavy armor in cities - that we had made it work unlike the Russians in Grozny?

M E TT-TC (emphasis added / kw). It can work, just as armor can be employed in the jungle -- but in both cases, you better know what you're doing and / or be significantly more competent than your opponent.

Am I correct in assuming that the decision to employ armor in Fallujah might have been different had the adversary possessed cutting edge anti-tank weapons?

[jmm99]

Example: WWII in the Ardennes - 1/117-30ID vs SS-Pz.Abt. 501 and its attached PzGrenadiers (mech inf), 12 18 44 Stavelot; Cutting Off Peiper:



The 1st Bn (117th Inf. Regt.) was simply a bunch of foot-sloggers - who did arrive North of Stavelot in trucks; but who infiltrated into the town on foot. So, they were infantry - just infantry (not light, heavy or medium) - and National Guard infantry to boot (as was the rest of the 30th Div.).

A bit more here (I need to complete the comments - someday). However, I like to look at this small engagement from the standpoint of the German opponent, schwere SS-PanzerAbteilung 501 in the Battle of the Bulge, the independent heavy tank battalion of the 1. SS-Panzerkorps.

The bottom line is that an infantry unit (with some AT and arty support) in an urban environment can clean the clock of an heavy armor unit (with attached mech. inf.) if the latter units are not employed properly.

Regards

Mike