Afghanistan ROE Change

[Entropy]

Quick summary: No more engaging insurgents near homes unless absolutely necessary.

Gen. Stanley McChrystal, who took command of international forces in Afghanistan this month, has said his measure of effectiveness will be the "number of Afghans shielded from violence" — not the number of militants killed.

McChrystal will issue orders within days saying troops may attack insurgents hiding in Afghan houses if U.S. or NATO forces are in imminent danger, said U.S. military spokesman Rear Adm. Greg Smith.

"But if there is a compound they're taking fire from and they can remove themselves from the area safely, without any undue danger to the forces, then that's the option they should take," Smith said. "Because in these compounds we know there are often civilians kept captive by the Taliban."

[Anthony Hoh]

I appreciate the perspective that if you lose the people you lose the war. However if the enemy fires on you indiscriminately and you have to pack out over concern for civilian casualties… I like to think I am somewhat counterinsurgency savvy, but the way I interpret this ROE change it sounds like a recipe for frustration to ground forces. Cant we focus our energy on making the populace resent the fact that the Taliban hide behind the innocent as opposed to offering the Taliban a free opportunity to send some lead our way. How many times do you get shot at from the same compound/village that you drive by every day before you can do something about it? I realize that may seem like an extreme example, but not an unrealistic one.

Gen McChrystal is smarter than me...Okay I got it. But I will really be watching with interest on how this gets implemented/enforced.

[Ken White]

Gen McChrystal is smarter than me

On this one:

I will really be watching with interest on how this gets implemented/enforced.

Me, too. I'll give it a month or two before it quietly disappears. Not a smart move on several levels...

[Blackjack]

On this one:Me, too. I'll give it a month or two before it quietly disappears. Not a smart move on several levels...

I agree ken, it is an order with the best of intentions that will more than likely have the worst of results. Civillian seems to be a more ambiguous word than ever. I touched on the idea of the insurgent who by attacks ISAF forces and then scurries off to the local villages where he is supported by friends and family. I think this order plays too much to the advantage of the enemy. Not all non-combatants are truely non-combatants. I learned this the hard way while doing peace operations in the Legion.

[Ron Humphrey]

What I haven't necessarily seen is anyone talk about the Afghan piece of this puzzle. What yall are sayin seems pretty ISAF centric. How would you see that piece

[Blackjack]

What I haven't necessarily seen is anyone talk about the Afghan piece of this puzzle. What yall are sayin seems pretty ISAF centric. How would you see that piece

I would say given the history, culture, religion, recent issues with the locals many Afghans may see it as weakness, the Talibs will certainly see it as weakness and start exploiting it soon.

If I were a Mujahideen commander I would direct units to start settign up shop in close proximity to civillian compounds. I amy even move my staff and command assets into one and do some clear, hold, opress operations to get the point across to the locals that we are strong and the ISAF are a bunch of majnoon who have lost their will to fight.

Is that the piece you were speaking of?

[Abu Suleyman]

On this one:Me, too. I'll give it a month or two before it quietly disappears. Not a smart move on several levels...

Has it quietly disappeared?

[Greyhawk]

13 Aug AP story via Air Force Times:

A new military approach in Afghanistan may mean buzzing rather than bombing the enemy, according to the general taking over the air war there.

It’s known as irregular warfare, designed to protect local people and then enlist their help defeating Taliban insurgents, Air Force Lt. Gen. Gilmary Hostage said Thursday.

“The first thing we do is fly over head, and the bad guys know airpower is in place and oftentimes that’s enough. That ends the fight, they vamoose,” said Hostage, who will direct the air battle over Iraq and Afghanistan. “The A-10 has a very distinct sound. The cannon on an A-10 is horrifically capable and our adversaries know it. When they hear the sound of an A-10, they scatter.”

Sometimes they do.

[George L. Singleton]

The A-10 is a very old subsonic tank killer.

It sounds like we have nitwits making battle plans if any of these quotes and suppositions are true.

Might as well bang bots together to drive the tiger, but the tiger is still there and will keep killing.