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Old 04-16-2013   #61
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Originally Posted by carl View Post
Something Mr. Thomas said in his article got me to thinking. He said a particular Red Chinese target is the company that supplies most of the nat gas and petroleum pipeline remote control software in North American. Now, we ran all kinds of complicated pipeline systems just fine for decades before computers came along. So I have two questions for those of you who know a lot about such things.

First, would the pipeline infrastructure of the 1950s be vulnerable to a cyber attack from Red China or anywhere else? I am guessing it would not be.

Second, do you think we might someday go back to such manual system with land line communications in order to be more secure from lethal cyber attack? I know I am probably getting something wrong but the general thrust of the question is about whether older tech might be better in the long run.
The Chinese are in the process of building an enormous pipeline network spanning vast distances and extremely hostile terrain. Why would you assume that their interest in pipeline controls is aimed at disrupting US pipelines? Wouldn't Occam's razor suggest that their own control technology is not that good, they know it, and they think stealing upgrades is easier and cheaper than buying or developing them?

Sending American industry back to the dark ages in an effort to insulate it from hypothetical cyber attacks seems a bit over the top to me. These systems may have run "just fine" in the 50s to a casual observer, but I suspect that if you talked to those in the industry they would tell you that the way they do things now is far more effective and far more efficient, and not just in using fewer workers. The technology developed for a reason.
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Old 04-16-2013   #62
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The Chinese are in the process of building an enormous pipeline network spanning vast distances and extremely hostile terrain. Why would you assume that their interest in pipeline controls is aimed at disrupting US pipelines? Wouldn't Occam's razor suggest that their own control technology is not that good, they know it, and they think stealing upgrades is easier and cheaper than buying or developing them?

Sending American industry back to the dark ages in an effort to insulate it from hypothetical cyber attacks seems a bit over the top to me. These systems may have run "just fine" in the 50s to a casual observer, but I suspect that if you talked to those in the industry they would tell you that the way they do things now is far more effective and far more efficient, and not just in using fewer workers. The technology developed for a reason.
Why am I not surprised at the tone this reply?
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Old 04-16-2013   #63
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Why am I not surprised at the tone this reply?
If you don't like the tone, address the substance.
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Old 04-16-2013   #64
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No, I am not talented enough to refute "Why would you...", "Wouldn't..."and "I suspect...".
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Old 04-16-2013   #65
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Do you believe that Chinese interest in pipeline controls is aimed at disrupting American pipelines, rather that simple industrial espionage aimed at improving Chinese pipeline control capacity? If so, why?

Do you think that today's pipeline infrastructure, or electrical distribution infrastructure, or financial infrastructure, or any of the other critical industries that are theoretically vulnerable to cyber attack could function with any vestige of effectiveness on the monumentally obsolete technology that would be immune to such attack? If so, why?

Do you think we should disable critical industries and render them uncompetitive out of fear that the Chinese will disrupt them? How is that different from cutting off our head so the Chinese can't punch us in the nose?
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Old 04-16-2013   #66
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And re this:

Look at the Mandiant report's map of Chinese cyber intrusions (at least those tied to Unit 61398): Russia is untouched. "That's a huge area. . . . I really would wonder why they're after South Africa, the U.A.E. and Singapore but not Russia.

Does that mean that the Chinese are leaving Russia alone, or that Mandant had no data on actions targeting Russia, or that the Chinese have a completely different unit targeting Russia? I certainly wouldn't assume on that basis alone that the Chinese are not targeting the Russians.
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Old 04-16-2013   #67
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Yes. Because.

Yes. Because.

Yes. Because.

And, finally...

Yes. Yes. Maybe and oh.
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Last edited by carl; 04-16-2013 at 06:56 AM.
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Old 04-16-2013   #68
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Not very convincing, but not unexpected either.
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Old 05-04-2013   #69
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Awesome.

Quote:
A US military contractor was allegedly hacked by those associated with the Chinese military. The company reportedly ignored signs of security breaches, allowing hackers to access military technology and classified documents for three years.

QinetiQ North America was attacked by a Shanghai-based hacker group from 2007 to 2010, Bloomberg reported on Thursday. The hacking collective has been coined the “Comment Crew” by security experts.

The company is known for its contributions to national security – including software used by US forces in Afghanistan and the Middle East.
http://rt.com/usa/us-military-chinese-hackers-792/
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Old 05-07-2013   #70
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Looks like they are upping the ante inside the beltway. Here is an NYT story reporting that the US gov is directly accusing the Red Chinese military of being behind all the attacks. An interesting aspect of the story is that in addition to stealing things, they figure the Red Army is conducting what might be called pre-strike reconnaissance.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/07/wo..._20130507&_r=0

It would be interesting to see the emails flying back and forth amongst the anointed in DC. It is surprising to me that they are being so direct about this. I wonder if the threat is so great that normal DC timidity is being suppressed.
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Last edited by carl; 05-07-2013 at 08:11 PM.
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Old 05-21-2013   #71
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Chinese hackers who breached Google’s servers several years ago gained access to a sensitive database with years’ worth of information about U.S. surveillance targets, according to current and former government officials.

The breach appears to have been aimed at unearthing the identities of Chinese intelligence operatives in the United States who may have been under surveillance by American law enforcement agencies.

It’s unclear how much the hackers were able to discover. But former U.S. officials familiar with the breach said the Chinese stood to gain valuable intelligence. The database included information about court orders authorizing surveillance — orders that could have signaled active espionage investigations into Chinese agents who maintained e-mail accounts through Google’s Gmail service.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...767_print.html
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Old 05-28-2013   #72
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WASHINGTON/CANBERRA (Reuters) - Chinese hackers have gained access to designs of more than two dozen major U.S. weapons systems, a U.S. report said on Monday, as Australian media said Chinese hackers had stolen the blueprints for Australia's new spy headquarters.
Citing a report prepared for the Defense Department by the Defense Science Board, the Washington Post said the compromised U.S. designs included those for combat aircraft and ships, as well as missile defenses vital for Europe, Asia and the Gulf.
Among the weapons listed in the report were the advanced Patriot missile system, the Navy's Aegis ballistic missile defense systems, the F/A-18 fighter jet, the V-22 Osprey, the Black Hawk helicopter and the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter.

Quote:
In Australia, a news report said hackers linked to China stole the floor plans of a A$630 million headquarters for the Australia Security Intelligence Organization, the country's domestic spy agency.
The attack through the computers of a construction contractor exposed not only building layouts, but also the location of communication and computer networks, it said.
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/c...133849940.html
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Old 05-29-2013   #73
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Glad someone else has been paying attention.

Meanwhile, happyfuntime soon to commence. Enjoy darkness, Imperial Running Dog Lackies.

Quote:
(Reuters) - China will next month conduct its first "digital" technology military exercise, state media said on Wednesday, against growing concern in Washington and elsewhere about Chinese hacking attacks.

A brief report by the official Xinhua news agency said the exercise, in north China's remote Inner Mongolia region, will "test new types of combat forces including units using digital technology amid efforts to adjust to informationalized war".
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...Name=worldNews
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Old 07-23-2013   #74
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Inside Harvard Business School's McArthur Hall, executive MBA student and CEO Kevin Mandia held a 60-page report in his hands and weighed a risky decision: Should he go public with the document, a detailed expos of Chinese theft of American trade secrets, based on seven years of work for nearly 150 corporate clients? The report's allegations -- that a Chinese military unit was likely engaged in systematic hacking and surveillance of U.S. companies -- not only would make Mandia and his young cybersecurity firm a target for potential retaliation but would also test Washington's already strained relations with Beijing. The 42-year-old former Air Force intelligence officer had a high tolerance for risk, but as he pondered his options that February evening, he wasn't sure that disclosure was a smart move. "We'd have a gigantic bull's-eye on our back," he kept thinking.
http://money.cnn.com/2013/07/08/tech...une/index.html
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Old 08-03-2013   #75
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A Chinese hacking group accused this February of being tied to the Chinese army was caught last December infiltrating a decoy water control system for a U.S. municipality, a researcher revealed on Wednesday.

The group, known as APT1, was caught by a research project that provides the most significant proof yet that people are actively trying to exploit the vulnerabilities in industrial control systems. Many of these systems are connected to the Internet to allow remote access (see “Hacking Industrial Systems Turns Out to Be Easy”). APT1, also known as Comment Crew, was lured by a dummy control system set up by Kyle Wilhoit, a researcher with security company Trend Micro, who gave a talk on his findings at the Black Hat conference in Las Vegas.
http://www.technologyreview.com/news...y-water-plant/
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Old 05-21-2014   #76
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WASHINGTON — In the Obama administration’s most direct confrontation with China over its theft of corporate secrets, the Justice Department on Monday unsealed an indictment of five members of the Chinese People’s Liberation Army and charged them with hacking into the networks of Westinghouse Electric, the United States Steel Corporation and other companies.

The indictment named members of Unit 61398, which was publicly identified last year as the Shanghai-based cyberunit of the People’s Liberation Army, including its best-known hackers known online by the noms de guerre “UglyGorilla” and “KandyGoo.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/20/us...w&rref=us&_r=0
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Old 06-10-2014   #77
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SAN FRANCISCO — The email attachment looked like a brochure for a yoga studio in Toulouse, France, the center of the European aerospace industry. But once it was opened, it allowed hackers to sidestep their victim’s network security and steal closely guarded satellite technology.

The fake yoga brochure was one of many clever come-ons used by a stealth Chinese military unit for hacking, said researchers at CrowdStrike, an Irvine, Calif., security company. Their targets were the networks of European, American and Japanese government entities, military contractors and research companies in the space and satellite industry, systematically broken into for seven years.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/10/te...acks.html?_r=1
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Old 10-06-2014   #78
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FBI director James Comey talked about Chinese hacking -- and how basically every American company has been targeted -- last night on 60 Minutes. Comey said that it's not the Chinese are so good, it's that they're "prolific." He likened their hacking style to a "drunk burglar."
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/...ar_808569.html
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Old 1 Week Ago   #79
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Washington (CNN) -- China and "probably one or two other" countries have the capacity to shut down the nation's power grid and other critical infrastructure through a cyber attack, the head of the National Security Agency told a Congressional panel Thursday.

Admiral Michael Rogers, who also serves the dual role as head of U.S. Cyber Command, said the United States has detected malware from China and elsewhere on U.S. computers systems that affect the daily lives of every American.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/20/politi...rid/index.html
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