Israeli-Arab Wars and Palestinian Population Displacement

[Adam L]

and led directly to the modern international terrorist movement,.

I think that is a bit of an overstatement and a simplification. Much of the modern international terrorits movement as you called developed somewhat independently of each other and had roots going back a long way.

I would like to share with you a comment from a Palestinian (well educated in the west and living in Canada.) He pointed out that frankly (this sort of supports Schmedlap awe at the Palestinians manipulation of the situation) nobody wants or likes the Palestinians and they are much better of with the Israelis are occupying them and not Egypt. Egypt would not have put up with them. This is part of what stopped the peace talks in the 90's. Gaza does not want to be part of or deal with Egypt.

With regards to Schmedlap question of whether or not this is a Small War, I would have to say yes and no. This conflict is hard to classify as anything because everybody has a hand in it and no body cares about the Palestinians in reality. Frankly, most Middle Eastern countries want there to be more conflict, it puts stock in their hatred of the Israelies.

Here's my idea for a two state settlement.

1. Give up settlements.
2. Build big walls. (with moat in between filled with pigs bood. LOL. Pershing would approve.)
3. Let them be.
4. Wait for another suicide attack.
5. Go shoot every Hamas leader you can find.
6. Leave
7. Repeat steps 3-6

Negotiations for peace are going to go no where on both sides. Israelies are too paranoid and have to deal with the settlers, and the Palestinians, those in charge, don't want it to get better because they will no longer have a job and the they will start fighting amongst themselves.

[Rex Brynen]

Egypt would not have put up with them. This is part of what stopped the peace talks in the 90's. Gaza does not want to be part of or deal with Egypt.

Not really--no one really considered Egyptian control over Gaza (or Jordanian control over the West Bank) as part of a possible deal. Instead, the entire thrust of the peace process from the Oslo Agreement in 1993 onwards was Palestinian self-determination in the West Bank and Gaza.

They came very, very close to this in 2000-01, but all three parties (US/Israel/Palestinians) made major errors that scuppered the negotiations and seriously damaged the prospects for peace any time in the immediate future.

....no body cares about the Palestinians in reality. Frankly, most Middle Eastern countries want there to be more conflict, it puts stock in their hatred of the Israelies.

I don't agree--I don't think many ME regimes are served well by the continuation of the conflict. The public salience of the Palestinian question has declined over the years, but it is still an emotive issue as virtually all the polling data (another one here) suggests.

Palestinians, those in charge, don't want it to get better because they will no longer have a job and the they will start fighting amongst themselves.

I don't agree here either--whatever his domestic constraints weaknesses as a leader, I think Abu Mazen very much wants to achieve peace. Indeed, the usual Israeli criticism of is not that he wants conflict, but that he can't deliver implementation of an agreement.

[Adam L]

I don't agree--I don't think many ME regimes are served well by the continuation of the conflict. The public salience of the Palestinian question has declined over the years, but it is still an emotive issue as virtually all the polling data (another one here) suggests.

Yes, people emote on the issue, but its more like a lot of rich northern liberals. They love every "Black" issue and support them, while personally they don't really give a damn or like them and just want the "status" and their own little cause to champion. Also, a lot of Middle Easterners don't like the Palestinians. They do when it comes to politics, but they don't want anything to do with them. As far as the "ME regimes" are concerned, no it doesned serve them well, but they certainly like having the Palestinian issue on their side when it comes to blaming the West for being in the Middle East. Remember these guys will cut off thier nose despite their face, literally.

I don't agree here either--whatever his domestic constraints weaknesses as a leader, I think Abu Mazen very much wants to achieve peace. Indeed, the usual Israeli criticism of is not that he wants conflict, but that he can't deliver implementation of an agreement.

First, I wasn't quite saying that about all leaders, but I was about most.
ALso, what about the recent Palestinian vs. Palestinian skirmishes in Gaza and the West Bank. Look at history, almost every group that emerges from years of foreign control almsot immediately runs into civil violence issues. Lets say the Israelis do pull out and leave them alone. This new Palestinian state will still be poor and uneducated. It won't be much better off than its current state nor what it would have developed into if nothing had been taken in '67 or even '48. They are on a piece of land with no significant value, and they lack the education and eperiences the Israelies had (a lot of Europes intelligencia) when they became a country. Look at Eastern Germany and the chaos it is still in, and they were western (sort of) before being occupied.

Adam