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Thread: After the Bin Laden op, what is the impact? Not on terrorism. Merged thread

  1. #41
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    Default I have to have it

    Bill, you did it now:

    from Bill Moore
    We need to hang up the old operations security poster in everyone's office, where a tough looking Sergeant is offering viewers a canteen cup saying "have a cup of shut the f*** up".
    Is that poster online - serious request ? I'd like it for my office B Board - maybe have to Photoshoop the language a bit.

    And, amen, to the sentiment.

    Cheers

    Mike

  2. #42
    Moderator Steve Blair's Avatar
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    Mike,

    You can get a version of it here: http://chairforce.com/images/desktop...p-backgrnd.jpg
    "On the plains and mountains of the American West, the United States Army had once learned everything there was to learn about hit-and-run tactics and guerrilla warfare."
    T.R. Fehrenbach This Kind of War

  3. #43
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    Default Hey Steve,

    Many thanks.

    And a nice large version it is - with some sanitizing already. Not the grizzled sarge version, but the recipient of the cup (a nerd in a helmet, maybe ?).

    From another whose favorite book on a war is T.R. Fehrenbach, This Kind of War (1964 paperback - new at 95 cents; bought used at 20 cents; held together by more tape than pages ).

    Cheers

    Mike

  4. #44
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    Default

    Nice illustration of how "5-11" changed everything. This is in Dawn, in Pakistan, very blunt analysis from Cyril Almeida: http://www.cyrilalmeida.com/2011/05/...cyril-almeida/

  5. #45
    Council Member carl's Avatar
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    Omar:

    A very good article that was with a wonderfully pithy description of the players in the game.
    Soldiers and intelligence networks are more useful than an under-educated and impoverished population. Double-gamers and duplicitous allies at least have something to offer; what can the wretched Pakistani people offer myopic Americans?
    "We fight, get beat, rise, and fight again." Gen. Nathanael Greene

  6. #46
    Council Member Pete's Avatar
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    Well, some things might have been, should have been, others could have been. There were also things that happened, but you had to be there. Your point of view at the time may have different from that of others who were also there. Scholarly reseachers should feel free to cite this message of mine as being the definitative account of what really went down there.

  7. #47
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    Posted by JMM,

    Not the grizzled sarge version, but the recipient of the cup (a nerd in a helmet, maybe ?).
    Either my memory is failing me, or he cleaned up nicely

  8. #48
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    Default Dammit Bill,

    you forgot you were the model - was that about 1943 ? - and with a retake in 2003.

    With apologies to the rest of the serious threaders here.

    I'll shut up now with a final comment that the jpg reduces down to 8.5 x 11 frame size at 300 dpi and prints out perfectly. Now ready for the office wall of stuff from the 30s and 40s.

    Regards

    Mike

  9. #49
    Council Member Pete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmm99 View Post
    With apologies to the rest of the serious threaders here.
    Whoa, wait a minute You sayin' I ain't one?

  10. #50
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    Default Pete,

    didn't we have this conversation several months ago and I re-affirmed your seriousness.

    Anyway, the one I meant was me - hell, we have Ray quoting MacBeth, what more could we wish for. Jack Masters, I suppose.

    Back to my legal cubbyhole to write up Ms O'Connell's The Choice of Law Against Terrorism.

    Cheers

    Mike

  11. #51
    Council Member Pete's Avatar
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    JMM, there's about a hundred dudes waitin' on you outside. I'll help you with the first three of em'.

  12. #52
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    Default Good,

    you'll take three; Todd (your new topkick) will take the next 3; and I will get the hell out of Dodge. I'm too old to take on 1, much less 94.

    Leaving you with the immortal words, spoken in spring of 1944, by Juho Paasikivi, as interviewed by John Scott, a Time-Life reporter (with close ties in both Washington and Moscow):

    Repeating to me what he had probably told Molotov - a description of what the result would be if Russia overran Finland. Paasikivi stood up, shook a bony finger in the air and said:

    We will shoot from behind every stone and tree, we will go on shooting for 50 years. We are not Czechs. We are not Dutchmen. We will fight tooth and nail behind every rock and over the ice of every lake. I will not fight long. I am old, but others will fight.
    Now, excuse me while I go to sleep - and I have no idea what this has to do with the ISI; but read my last two posts here, No options are off the table, and The Choice of Law Against Terrorism.

    Give me your military observations.

    Blame Entropy; he got me going.

    Regards

    Mike

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray View Post
    After Osama: Why I Still Think America Should Be in Afghanistan

    Peter Bergen

    Link

    a comment on this:

    05/04/2011 - 2:39am EDT | Konstantin

    Somebody’s been reading good ole Small Wars Journal.

    http://smallwarsjournal.com/journal/iss/v7n3.pdf

    The pertinent article by LTC Mann begins on page 4. Check out that Officerese. It is thick, but a careful reader will discern that the paper is an updated description of the Village Stability Operations & affiliated narrative exploitation TTPs to which Peter Bergen refers in this TNR article. Other than references to the Taliban and a cursory mention of the history of Afghan governance principles, the paper appears to be a regurgitated, less formatted min ... view full comment
    Ray, the following article struck a cord with me. I liked it.

    I would appreciate your comment from the sub-continent (no matter how short):

    After Osama bin Laden, Pakistan’s narrow window for redemption - By Mansoor Ijaz

  14. #54
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    The complicity of the ISI in the Afghan insurgency is evident if one considers the policy of arresting Taliban commanders who are deviating from the agenda of a jihad against the western troops in Afghanistan. One of the most striking examples was the detention of Mullah Beradar last year. Beradar was the number two of the Taliban (although one could say he was rather number one because Mullah Omar has has not been seen nor heard of for a long time...). Beradar was ready for peace talks with the Afghan government. After he had moved between Pakistan and Afghanistan freely the Pakistanis suddenly arrested him, but kept him away from the Americans. I think this arrest should send a strong signal to any of commanders who was thinking about a policy change towards Kabul.
    Although I don not have a proof, I personally think that the Pakistanis sold bin Land to the Americans because he was of no value to them any longer. I see his death more as a symbolic success rather than a real tournaround in the struggle against terrorism.

  15. #55
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    Default Another Pakistani viewpoint

    Not something we've seen much in press reporting, apart form the obligatory street protests - what is the Pakistani press/TV saying? Draw your own conclusions:http://www.opendemocracy.net/abbas-z...security-state

    OK for economy try these selections:
    The very idea behind Pakistan's security state is that civilians are expendable, that there is no need to build civilian institutions because we are permanently invaded and the whole world is our enemy.

    (At the end)..the army would not have been able to get away with billions of rupees every year in the name of national security leaving millions of Pakistanis without proper access to education and health. Think about it: 17 million Pakistani kids do not go to school because there are not any they can go to; and one government hospital caters for about half a million Pakistanis.
    davidbfpo

  16. #56
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    Default

    After the Bin Laden op, what is the impact?
    Approx. two dozen bad first person shooter games with the UBL kill scenario.

  17. #57
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    If you are interested in the Pakistani media, you have to pay attention to what those connected to the pro-jihadi wing of the establishment are saying, not just what the small number of liberal English columnists are saying. for example: http://criticalppp.com/archives/48194

    I would add that there IS more criticism of the army and ISI than there has been allowed in the past, and the narrative of ISI as the last line of defence against the CIA is becoming harder to sustain (and is truly contradictory now, since there is at least some part of the establisment that cooperates with the US), but its not like they are giving up.

    The sad part is, many of them sincerely believe they are the ones defending the future of Pakistan and its people. Once you accept that the US is trying to destroy Pakistan (and arranged carefully stage-managed fake operations on 9-11 and 5-11 and much else as steps in this nefarious scheme) then preserving the good jihadis and the good taliban is a duty, not a mistake.

  18. #58
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    omarali;

    If I were the head of the ISI, I would wage war against the U.S., India and the mujahideen network in the much the same way that they are doing so right now.That isn't to say I won't condemn it.

  19. #59
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    If you were head of ISI you might, but if you were a Pakistani outside of ISI, would you still approve of their priorities?

  20. #60
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    Default They did it again...

    Seems as if the Pakistanis are a bit p***** after the bin Laden raid. They blew the cover of another CIA station chief in Pakistan:

    http://www.spiegel.de/politik/auslan...761466,00.html

    Sorry, it's in German.

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