XM25 "good enough"

[Fuchs]

It focuses the scope of the weapon on supporting the riflemen and does away with the rather naive vision that every grunt will have one.

One per fire team was the official plan for the OICW.

[Firn]

One per fire team was the official plan for the OICW.

Really? I guess I crossread it with the new Korean rifle. Anyway this makes of course much more sense.

Another thoughts.

A 25x40mm grenade should weight only around a third of a 40x46mm or something like 80 g instead of 230 g. Thus you can carry a lot of them, especially if the Grenadier can do away with another long weapon and maybe even the pistol thanks to some "defensive" rounds (slugs, buckshot, AP).


Firn

[Kiwigrunt]

A 25x40mm grenade should weight only around a third of a 40x46mm or something like 80 g instead of 230 g.

So how effective can such a small grenade really be, assuming it will air-burst a few metres away from the target? I assume an advantage of this air-burst over the 40 mm is that no energy is lost in the ground. Or, come to think of it, into the back wall of a room after firing it through a window.

Also from Firn:

So it covers quite some needs.

I'm not sure that all the examples you gave can really be seen as needs. Some seem more of a justification to help warrant it's existence. For instance, a buckshot or flechette round seems to me a heavy, bulky and expensive alternative to 5.56 or 7.62. A breaching round however could have merrit.

[Firn]

S
I'm not sure that all the examples you gave can really be seen as needs. Some seem more of a justification to help warrant it's existence. For instance, a buckshot or flechette round seems to me a heavy, bulky and expensive alternative to 5.56 or 7.62. A breaching round however could have merrit.

We will have to wait and see if the XM25 can fulfill it's core and much advertised function, taking out people behind cover through a precisely placed air-bursting round.


Let us talk about the possible functions and the needed ammuntion:

a) Rapdily eliminating or suppressing enemy targets on open ground and in defilade from short to long distances with a low risk of collatoral damage and relative lightweight rounds. The small burst radius should allow a short (10m?) arming range-> HEAB

b) Defeating or stopping lightly armored targets, such as vehicles or personnel behind cover at short to long ranges.-> AP (HEAT?), HEAB

c) Killing enemies at close range, for example while clearing a house or a trench Essentially selfdefense, this task is better left to other soldiers. -> Sabot Slug ( good range, good, safe penetration power), Buckshot/Flechette ( very short range, medium penetration), not armed HEAB

d) Breeching doors. -> Breeching round

e) Crowd/Riot control. Less-than-Lethal rounds -> bean bags, soft slugs. I'm generally sceptical about their use, but it should be possible to create some sensbile ones to give trained hands an important toolset.

f) Training. -> Training round


All in all the 25mm grenades won't replace the 40mm, as it will still be for many uses (smoke, illumination, WP, disposable camera, sheer bang) the better choice.


Firn

P.S: It seems that the XM25 with solid rounds is somewhat between downloaded 6- and 8-bores favorite big game rifles of the 19th century. A thinner sabot will result in less weight and more muzzle velocity.

[Tukhachevskii]

Let us talk about the possible functions and the needed ammuntion:

a) Rapdily eliminating or suppressing enemy targets on open ground and in defilade from short to long distances with a low risk of collatoral damage and relative lightweight rounds. The small burst radius should allow a short (10m?) arming range-> HEAB

b) Defeating or stopping lightly armored targets, such as vehicles or personnel behind cover at short to long ranges.-> AP (HEAT?), HEAB

c) Killing enemies at close range, for example while clearing a house or a trench Essentially selfdefense, this task is better left to other soldiers. -> Sabot Slug ( good range, good, safe penetration power), Buckshot/Flechette ( very short range, medium penetration), not armed HEAB

d) Breeching doors. -> Breeching round

e) Crowd/Riot control. Less-than-Lethal rounds -> bean bags, soft slugs. I'm generally sceptical about their use, but it should be possible to create some sensbile ones to give trained hands an important toolset.

f) Training. -> Training round

g) Coudln't the XM25 provide a very useful small unit (plt level) air-defence weapon against small tactical UAVs (not the UCAV though) with its flachette rounds?


The Swedes have been busy too; The Swedish Squad Support Weapon Programme

[Tukhachevskii]

g) Coudln't the XM25 provide a very useful small unit (plt level) air-defence weapon against small tactical UAVs (not the UCAV though) with its flachette rounds?


The Swedes have been busy too; The Swedish Squad Support Weapon Programme

p.s. if link doesn't work search for SSW Presentation at ESAS 2003 on google or a search engine of your choice

[Kiwigrunt]

It's coming.

[SJPONeill]

So how effective can such a small grenade really be, assuming it will air-burst a few metres away from the target?

Efficiencies in fragmentation rounds can be realised by hyping up the technology and quality control in the fragmentation shell so that it fragments reliably and consistently over the required pattern...just like the original hand grenades had a cast sheel that might even shatter into a even spread, or simply just break into a small number of large chunks...5-6 years ago, Denel reckoned that it had made the frag pattern of its new 105mm round consistent and reliable enough to offer the same spread as the 155mm rounds of the time...