KiwiGrunt,
Is that a 6.5 Grendel cartridge in your photo?
-- Matt
KiwiGrunt,
Is that a 6.5 Grendel cartridge in your photo?
-- Matt
Last edited by Kiwigrunt; 01-11-2010 at 09:03 AM. Reason: mistaken the 5.56 for a 6.8 SPC
Nothing that results in human progress is achieved with unanimous consent. (Christopher Columbus)
All great truth passes through three stages: first it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
(Arthur Schopenhauer)
ONWARD
Thanks Fuchs and Kiwigrunt for the technical details. I had the gut feeling this would be the case but you just gave me the right data.
Stan, when you say China would probably be already producing 7.62 NATO in Africa, do you have any idea of where?
What I see is that this could come from Khartoum, Eritrea, Somalia; all through Ethiopia or Northern Kenya. But that would mean the production plan would be located in one of those places.
Do you think it could be the case?
One of my colleague said that G3 where also used in Irak during Sadam times. Most of SAF guys were trained there. It would make sense that some of those ammunitions could come from Irak during the last years (at least during 2003 to 2006). Do you think this could be the case?
M-A Lagrange Have you seen this report dated 2009?
http://www.smallarmssurvey.org/files...s-in-Sudan.pdfIn its October 2009 report, the UN Panel of Experts noted that ‘an increasing proportion of 12.7 mm, 7.62 x 39 mm and 7.62 x 54 mm ammunition, as well as 4 x 4 vehicles, in use by all parties to the conflict in Darfur was produced postembargo’, indicating increasing embargo violations.34 According to the Panel of Experts, the violators include both Darfurian and Darfur-based Chadian groups, including the JEM, the Sudan Liberation Army (SLA)- Abdul Wahid, and the Union of Forces of the Resistance.35
sgmgrumpy,
Thanks for the link. Actually I did have that one. I recommand it for anyone who is interrested into weapon trafficking in Darfur.
I'll be very specific: I am looking at specific ethnic groups access to small weapons and more especially to the G3 ammunitions.
The ethnic groups I am looking at are living long the Ethiopian border in Jongley and Eastern Equatoria.
The main problem I have with small arms survey is that they look mainly at organised groups weapons purchases. I am looking at individual or micro local communities access to small weapons.
Also, most of the UN efforts are turned on Darfur. I believe there can be some links between South Sudan and Darfur for weapon smuggling but it's too far from where I am.
The Sergeant Major beat me to it
Years ago there were reports of 7.62 NATO coming into DRC. Nothing directly pointed to the Chinese but there was sufficient rumor to make one wonder.
I doubt the ammo is coming from The Czech or Polish republics, but one quick look at the head stamps and/or primers will do the trick.
Keep in mind there's some real old ammunition in Africa and may have nothing to do with recent illegal trafficking. I "obtained" a rather rare box of steel-cased .45 acp in 1992 with head stamps from 1943! Not a single misfire
Regards, Stan
Production Plants: Kenya maybe, but the other countries ? I read the ammo was being shipped in direct from the manufacturer. Somalia sounds like the easiest point of entry and great for sales.
Last edited by Stan; 01-11-2010 at 04:01 PM. Reason: Production Plants
If you want to blend in, take the bus
Countries don't always check to make sure where their surplus ammo goes. South Afric sold a whole bunch to a German firm that later resold it on the US market...
It took them about 15 years to figure it out.
Stan, Sorry. At least we both seem to immediately point in the same direction
M-A Lagrange
I thought you where also asking "where it was coming from". Checking the Stamp marks on the ammo would be a start.
As per Small Arms Survey:
Example (61) stamped on casing is from factory 61 (China). SAS website has a great document for tracing ammo. Ammunition Tracing Kit
Nothing that results in human progress is achieved with unanimous consent. (Christopher Columbus)
All great truth passes through three stages: first it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
(Arthur Schopenhauer)
ONWARD
Last edited by Stan; 01-11-2010 at 04:27 PM.
If you want to blend in, take the bus
According to Wiki, it was re-opened in 2004 under a new name. No despot would shut down a munitions factory.That one supposedly closed in 2003, but definitely worth wondering if any surplus ammo made its way elsewhere.
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