Thoughts on "Patrol Base Infantry"

[Norfolk]

After having read this again I completely agree with this point, have my own questions and want to know what he meant by this...

It takes a considerable amount of time and training to instill an active observer (reconnaissance) mindset into the warrior and sniping is without question a highly advanced application and more evolved form of that basic mindset. I wonder if he said "sniper" and intended more along the lines of a universal DM program? As you said being a good shot does not make a sniper and we know that if we sent all of our light infantrymen to sniper schools one of two things would have to happen, we would either have to lower the standards so everyone could pass or we would have to accept the fact that a large percentage of them would be coming right back to their units.

Ender, I found myself similarly confused by Owen's statement about training all the PBID Infantry as snipers. As for myself, I came down on the side of Owen intending that the PBID Infantry were actually to be snipers, not merely sharpshooters. Given that Owen is a former British Army Infantry officer himself, I therefore took it that it would be unlikely for him to use the term "Sniper" when he in fact meant "Designated Marksman". He would undoubtedly comprehend the vast difference between the two. But as you said, it would be nice if we had something from Owen to clarify this point.

[William F. Owen]

Gents,

Now I am here I will attempt to make some useful contribution. Not sure where to start though.

[Ken White]

do is go to this LINK, hit the "Post Reply" button and give some of your background, that helps everyone relate to where you're coming from...

After that, just jump in anywhere...

[William F. Owen]

Ender, I found myself similarly confused by Owen's statement about training all the PBID Infantry as snipers. As for myself, I came down on the side of Owen intending that the PBID Infantry were actually to be snipers, not merely sharpshooters.

Obviously I need to address this. It has already cause huge problems when the article was published in the British Army’s Doctrine and Training News.

1. All I am suggesting is that Infantry need to have a high standard of measurable skill. – and the determination to get it.
2. These skills should be field craft, shooting, navigation, observation and communication. These are all core sniper skills. They are also core infantry skills, which need to be developed.
3. Thus “sniper training,” would have a great deal of use to basic infantry training. This is not to say that the same standards that qualify snipers would be applied to basic training. EG- Recruits would only be required to stalk and locate a target unseen, and would not be required to release shots and get out of the position undiscovered, as snipers have to.

[Cavguy]

Obviously I need to address this. It has already cause huge problems when the article was published in the British Army’s Doctrine and Training News.

1. All I am suggesting is that Infantry need to have a high standard of measurable skill. – and the determination to get it.
2. These skills should be field craft, shooting, navigation, observation and communication. These are all core sniper skills. They are also core infantry skills, which need to be developed.
3. Thus “sniper training,” would have a great deal of use to basic infantry training. This is not to say that the same standards that qualify snipers would be applied to basic training. EG- Recruits would only be required to stalk and locate a target unseen, and would not be required to release shots and get out of the position undiscovered, as snipers have to.

Would suggest that US Infantry is headed that direction with the squad designated marksman program - it's not sniper skills, just a focus on rifle skills above the normal rifleman.

I would also suggest that we can all come up with good ideas for what infantry should get training in, finding that time in the middle of back to back 12 month deployment cycles is amazingly tough given all the other requirements in the current environments. Most units don't even get to 90% strength until 3 months before deployment, and that makes advanced team training difficult.

[William F. Owen]

Would suggest that US Infantry is headed that direction with the squad designated marksman program - it's not sniper skills, just a focus on rifle skills above the normal rifleman.

I would also suggest that we can all come up with good ideas for what infantry should get training in, finding that time in the middle of back to back 12 month deployment cycles is amazingly tough given all the other requirements in the current environments. Most units don't even get to 90% strength until 3 months before deployment, and that makes advanced team training difficult.

Well if you have someone with a 20 inch barrel and x4 sight with a ballistically matched hold over reticle out to 800m (ACOG TA-32?) then great. The UK now calls (re-branded ) the LSW L86A2 (a very accurate weapon) operator the "marksman". The Israelis do the same. Each fireteam has one. It's a guy that can take a long range deliberate shot, for less equipment and training investment than a full blown sniper. - but what if you have Snipers in the Platoon?

Yep, that 12 month deployment cycle will screw things up, but how well organised is you normal training anyway, and what I am talking about is pretty basic stuff and not advanced. I am also focussing on recruit training.

[Cavguy]

Well if you have someone with a 20 inch barrel and x4 sight with a ballistically matched hold over reticle out to 800m (ACOG TA-32?) then great. The UK now calls (re-branded ) the LSW L86A2 (a very accurate weapon) operator the "marksman". The Israelis do the same. Each fireteam has one. It's a guy that can take a long range deliberate shot, for less equipment and training investment than a full blown sniper. - but what if you have Snipers in the Platoon?

Yep, that 12 month deployment cycle will screw things up, but how well organised is you normal training anyway, and what I am talking about is pretty basic stuff and not advanced. I am also focussing on recruit training.

Sounds like it's a very similar program. They first tried M-14's and then decided to use M16A2/A4's with 4x ACOG sights instead. Goal was hits in the 600m band. The trained soldiers were 2x per squad and received about a week of advanced marksmanship training. Not snipers by any means, but as you said - a guy who can hit more reliably and farther out than your average infantryman. Kind of like the sniper guy in Saving Private Ryan.

I know I picked my most experienced shooters/ good ol boys for it and they ate it up, and formed a small group to hone each other's skills and help train the rest of their platoons.