Commonalities and lessons learned between gangs and insurgencies

[Ken White]

One blink was 'Hi.' Two was Cop ahead; three was danger ahead (road out, bridge out, icy bridge). A single flash when being passed was "I got you, okay to pull back in." Turning off the lights briefly was "thanks."

There was a time when a Cop witnessing a double flash to oncoming traffic would pull you over and harass you just for grins. Haven't seen that happen in the least 30-40 years.

Back to the thread -- you can bet there were and are literally hundreds of signals -- to include what the kids are doing and how they're playing. Also verbal cues that bystanders or even many Terps may pick up but not reveal.

[Schmedlap]

There was a time when a Cop witnessing a double flash to oncoming traffic would pull you over and harass you just for grins. Haven't seen that happen in the least 30-40 years.

That's another aspect of it that I've been curious about. When the signal is so easy to relay, it increases that chances that people will send it. By relaying the signal for the criminal, the signaler creates a closer bond with the criminal than with the police officer. When kids in Iraq alert an IED emplacer of an oncoming IA patrol or they act as the spotters for an ambush, they are suddenly part of the team. I don't know what to do about it, but it seems like a self-reinforcing activity.

For my part, whenever someone flashes their headlights at me, I flip the person off. Aside from the fact that I don't speed to begin with, my hope is that the person will get annoyed that, "geez, try to help a guy out and he flips you off - I'm not doing that again." I don't understand why people in this country find it so acceptable to help others break the law.

[Ken White]

I don't know what to do about it, but it seems like a self-reinforcing activity. ... I don't understand why people in this country find it so acceptable to help others break the law.

As your first paragraph above points out, it happens elsewhere. Everywhere in my observation.

Partly a 'we're all in this together; us against the man...' routine, partly rebellion against 'authority.' Partly a rather juvenile 'I'm violating the the rules -- look at me, I'm bad!' thing plus I'm sure a lot of other individual foibles wrapped up in it.

In the COIN-like scenario, I suspect there's also a lot of ethnic / neighbor solidarity plus a degree of fear that one might be able to fool or evade the foreigners but the local folks can get to you if they get angry.

Based on what I've seen, a lot depends on the attitude of the host nation or allied unit (or both) involved in the area; if they tend to get heavy handed or are perceived as excessively arrogant or even just rude (by local standards -- and most in the world are more polite than Americans. Further, the world over, all soldiers tend to sometimes be a little rough around the edges), they'll turn off the local folks and make them more inclined to indulge in if not actual help, at least a little passive resistance or passivity toward the bad guys.

Only solution to it I've found is absolutely fair and professional conduct or actions. People recognize competence when they see it and it garners respect even if one is not liked and fair treatment almost always draws a like response. I've seen that attitude provide information benefits from local populations that were of great value...

As an aside, throwing a lot of money about seems to me to have a negative effect; they'll take the money but you lose big points in respect. The more you throw, the more they'll take and the less you'll gain as it becomes a game to get as much of your wealth as possible.

I realize that throws one COIN theory out the window but I'm pretty well convinced that out profligate spending does more harm than good. Frequently and for many reasons, some spending is necessary but it is a mistake to think that buys any hearts or minds. Development will be accepted and used but it will not buy true friendship. Or loyalty -- or a a change of heart in the beneficiaries; we're still foreigners and fair game.

[ODB]

Not truly on topic but makes one wonder how many we are training.

(U) Gang-related activity in the US military is increasing and poses a threat to law enforcement officials and national security. Members of nearly every major street gang have been identified on both domestic and international military installations. Although most prevalent in the Army, the Army Reserves, and the National Guard, gang activity is pervasive throughout all branches of the military and across most ranks, but is most common among the junior enlisted ranks. The extent of gang presence in the armed services is often difficult to determine since many enlisted gang members conceal their gang affiliation and military authorities may not recognize gang affiliation or may be inclined not to report such incidences. The military enlistment of gang members could ultimately lead to the worldwide expansion of US-based gangs.

Full Assessment

[pjmunson]

I read Islands in the Street by Martin Sanchez-Jankowski after a pointer by a peer. It was written by a sociologist who studied a number of urban gangs of various ethnic/racial backgrounds from several U.S. cities. I think it gives a lot of insight to the commonalities to bands of young men/social movements across cultures and how they integrate into the larger social structure of their neighborhoods. The insights certainly carry over into insurgent groups to some extent. You can also find a number of articles about former gang members in the military and reservists who are gang task force members in their civilian life using those insights to analyze insurgent groups in Iraq.

[davidbfpo]

As the link words suggest a royal prince on gangs, after talking to them: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...eet-gangs.html

Added here, although other threads on gangs.

davidbfpo

[Jedburgh]

Not truly on topic but makes one wonder how many we are training.

Full Assessment

Previously posted in the Gangs Claima Their Turf in Iraq thread. Although since the time of the original post (Feb 07) both FOUO documents have been widely disseminated on the open 'net. Anyway, on that thread there are also several other links there to other sources you may find of interest.

The Yale Law Journal also recently published a piece, Gangs in the Military, which cites several of the sources posted on this board.

[reed11b]

Army (and the rest of the DOD) are in need of taking a strong stance on not allowing gang members into the service. This could take the form of a zero tolerance for enlistment of individuals with gang tattoos. Also any finding of gang activity in the background check and discipline for anyone making gang signs in military photos. Current soldiers with gang tattoos would have to have them removed or be discharged. The Army managed to get ahold of the skinhead problem in the 90's, they can do the same with the gangs.
Reed

[Blackjack]

Army (and the rest of the DOD) are in need of taking a strong stance on not allowing gang members into the service. This could take the form of a zero tolerance for enlistment of individuals with gang tattoos. Also any finding of gang activity in the background check and discipline for anyone making gang signs in military photos. Current soldiers with gang tattoos would have to have them removed or be discharged. The Army managed to get ahold of the skinhead problem in the 90's, they can do the same with the gangs.
Reed

I think it does relate in a way Reed, and I agree about how the skinheads got cleaned up. I was in during the 90s' and my leadership nipped that stuff in the bud quick. There were 3 chapter cases in 1-21, 1 chapter case in 1-27, and 1 chapter in 2-14 withing the span of a month for being affiliated with neo-nazi punks. If the Army did the same thing with the other gangs and handled it like the skinheads the army would be a lot better off.


I do not know if Fort Hood can get a hold on its' Crip/Sur 13/MEchA/GD/La Raza problem though. There are other gangs on Fort Hood, but those two are the largest. I should take some pictures of housing here on Ft. Hood, specifically Commanche III housing area. The welcome signs are tagged with gang markings.