Seeking comments on viral I/O video

[Merv Benson]

I agree that the activity has little impact on the enemy.

However, I think it is more about building our guys morale by disrespecting the enemy. In World War II one admiral said he was going to see that the only place the Japanese language was spoken was in Hell. Gen. Patton talked about going to kill "those purple pissing Japs." Neither statement would pass the political correctness test today, but they did give voice to the anger felt toward the enemy and they probable did inspire the effort to defeat the enemy.

Sometimes political correctness saps the heat from the battle and makes the whole conflict look more cold blooded which also helps the enemy.

[selil]

Sometimes political correctness saps the heat from the battle and makes the whole conflict look more cold blooded which also helps the enemy.

I've been thinking about the political correctness movement in language (semanticism?) and the ethereal euphemisms applied to battle and war.

My hypothesis is that restrictive ROE's and political correctness are a "glad handing" corollary in the political spectrum of combat. I think there is likely a direct correlation between the two and as you see one increase you see the other also increase. I would further hypothesize that there is a direct inverse correlation between effectiveness in combat and the political correctness describing the combat.

I think in describing war as "peace keeping" and further "humanitarian" we've created an environment where the expectations of a soldier and general is skewed and the politics increases the risks for all in the theater of combat.

In the restrictive mental cubicle of political correctness and euphemistic dialog those who aren't boxed in by the politics will squeak through the cracks and videos as posted above will leak through. The politics and likely history will say the war in Iraq was ill advised and horribly justified, but the political history of the Iraq war and WW2 were and are so different. Imagine the message differences to the public.


There isn't much humanitarian in this WW2 poster.


Religion as a tool of war never by western civilization? Imagine this being said about Islam today. "You can be an Iraqi or Muslim but not both?" Yes I know that the corollary isn't complete, but it still is a remarkable contrast to the politics of today.


Just for MarcT......


All posters borrowed from Collectibles.Com

[jonSlack]

Its not barbaric - but neither does it have anything to do with good or bad "strategic corporal-ing". Its just juvenile idiocy. It's already clear that it is a positive motivational tool for your average Snuffy "yeah, ####'em, send the bastards to hell!" However, the only effect on the bad guys would be similarly emotional - to piss'em off. Or perhaps they'll just be amused, and snicker to themselves about the stupidity of the infidel as they emplace their next IED ambush. As far as the general indig population - it only furthers their perception of our guys as ignorant westerners attacking a misunderstood aspect of the faith, rather than reaching a real solution to dealing with murderers and criminals.

I agree, this is juvenile idiocy and in a perfect world it would stop there.

However, videos of this nature can and will be used in by the enemy in their IO/PsyOp releases to continue to characterize coalition forces, especially American forces, as Christian crusaders who are targeting all Muslims and who do not respect the Muslim faith, no matter where it falls on the secular to fundamentalist spectrum.

While I do not think it will spread to the same level, I am reminded of the Enfield rifle cartridge fun the British had in India.

[bismark17]

It reminds me of being in elementary school and playing swords at the urinal. Or playing the game, who can piss the highest. It's rather ridiculous. Especially when you look farther on the same site and see a propaganda video of 2 heroes getting blown out of the sky to a chorus of praises to Allah.

As a sidebar, according to recent debate in Congress, that SAM was obviously built in someones garage off of downloaded internet plans and didn't have anything to do with any neighboring countries supporting the insurgency....That wouldn't be possible. I don't think Iran had anything to do with the Marine barracks bombing in Beirut, either.....or that poor Lt. COL USMC, that got hung over there or what they did to that COS there. That was all the work of small groups of like minded citizens without any Iranian support......But, I digress...it's now time to surf the latest Hollywood gossip and see if Oprah has any more additions to her book club.

[Bill Moore]

The impact of this particular video will probably be nil to minimal. However watching this right after reading the excellent article on "The Power of Political Mobilization" in Issue 7 of the SWJ, it really made me wonder if our military truely has enough strategic corporals to facilitate mobilizing the population to support our effort. While acts like this are mainly intended to entertain fellow soldiers and blow off stress, the reality, as we all know, is that they end up on places like U-Tube where the entire global population can download them, and then spin them to support their message. Look the American soldiers hate Muslims, they're not here to protect you, etc. Again this was clowning around, but it is one more straw on the camel's back in this IO war. While I agree with previous comments on political correctness impacting our operations, in this case I don't see this as PC comment, but rather a strategic argument on why we have the real the guys in occassionally, and explain the potential undesired 2d order effects.

bismark, while I don't deny Iranin meddling, don't forget the Iraqi military had MANPADS, and we sure as heck didn't even get close to securing 10% of their arms initially. The Iraqi insurgents don't need much support from outside nations in this area, but none the less they have received EFPs from some entity in Iran, and the level of sosphistication of some recent attacks indicate they received training from a capable special operations unit (most likely Iran). I do think the Iranina Special Operations is very capable, and this isn't just reflected in the performance of their surrogate force the Hezbollah, but I personally saw a counter terrorist unit I was training with who recently returned from training in Iran, and their skills were markedly improved. The soldiers who went there thought the training was some of the best they received.

Iran is obviously playing a political game of brinksmanship, but don't confuse the current regime with the regime that supported the atrocities in Lebanon. Motivations may be different now, and what would be interesting is to see why they think they have us by the balls now, thus can (and so far have) get away with their support of various factions in Iraq? If nothing else they are survivors, so I'm not 100% convinced that the support coming from Iran is authorized by the highest levels of government. They want to stick around for awhile. Like a lot of Middle Eastern Governments, they may not have enough political strength to bring their subordinates to heel.

[bismark17]

wow. The value of this website is reflected in your response. You know far more than I do. Good lord. I can only go through the open source stuff that I have read. My hat goes off to all of you guys fighting the good fight. My family thanks all of you!!! I carry a gun when I have the privilage to be with my daughter, just in case. You guys in Theatre are in a whole different dynamic.

It's a good point about the manpads. I am just a cop in CONUS these days. It just makes me wonder why suddenly POTUS decided to now bring up the Iranian issue when we all know they have been heavily involved for a long period of time. A lot of Americans have suffered due to them. That our media is trying to make it look like some kind of Seepah gone wild is ridiculous. I really doubt they have a bunch of agents that are freelancing. These are just my opinions....I realize that i am getting into an areas that no one who is able to, can....I guess I will quit the ranting and just thank all of you out there keeping us safe and all of you that have created this site!

[120mm]

The rants have a purpose. They stir up discussion. I posted the video, knowing it would stir debate, but not really knowing where it would lead.

I count myself as ignorant in that particular corner of Islam. I thought that the actual act of being contaminated with pork would actually get you sent to Hell. But my read on observed Muslim behavior at Armor School suddenly got a readjustment with this thread.

Suddenly, a lot of things just came together. Thanks!

[Stan]

I am just a cop in CONUS these days.

Bismark, My hat's off to you ! I wouldn't have your job over EOD ever ! You have to establish communication with the "bad" guys and figure something out quickly.

They want to stick around for awhile. Like a lot of Middle Eastern Governments, they may not have enough political strength to bring their subordinates to heel.

Bill's point is dead on ! Even 17 years later following independence, some of the former east bloc cannot contend with their "subordinates". A trip to Tbilisi, Georgia makes the wild, wild west look like a picnic gone out of control.