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Old 03-23-2007   #1
tequila
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Default Iran captures British sailors

They are currently holding 15 Brit sailors and Marines.
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Old 03-23-2007   #2
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-and oil jumped to $62 a barrel on the spot and will probably peak even higher by close of business today

-and I'm reminded of that pirate song verse " 15 men on a dead man's chest". I thought there were still Laws on the books about piracy, that it was a scourge to be eradicated by any and all means necessary?

Last edited by Jedburgh; 12-16-2007 at 01:13 PM.
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Old 03-24-2007   #3
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In Iran's case, it's not piracy, it's just "business as usual."
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Old 03-24-2007   #4
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Default Smoke Screen

... let's divert attention away from the Security Council's vote today on sanctions...
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Old 03-26-2007   #5
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Default Looming Crisis

From the AP:

"LONDON — Iran warned that 15 British sailors and marines could face charges for allegedly entering Iranian waters and rejected British requests to meet with the servicemen detained off the coast of Iraq."

This reminds me of saddam's antics and actions before the first invasion. I'm all for sanctions and due process but I doubt these sailors will be returned. To return them will show weakness - that's how I see their thinking.
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Old 03-26-2007   #6
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They returned eight sailors last year. Iran no doubt sees these Brits as a bargaining chip.
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Old 03-26-2007   #7
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Default The Eternal Pessimist

I hope you're right, Tequilla. I think it's gone too far now, there is no turning back. A big hunk of the world is saying in affect let them have their nukes, it will keep the flow of commerce going at a steady pace. The peaceniks are prepping already for an opposition campaign against the use of force. A left wing Israeli newspaper has already mentioned the potential of massive radiation contamination if the nuke sites are hit. Half our own population can't commit to any military operation that lasts longer than 2 days with no KIAs and the other half is only concerned about bargains at Wal-Mart. With the new sanctions in place, Iran will dig in and if there is any intervention with force, the sailors will be tried and jailed and quite possibly be hung in public. I have no reason for optimism. We've got carriers in the area, the Kurds are causing them some problems, there is considerable internal dissatisfaction and economic woes, the Jews remain strong and now more sanctions are in place against them.
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Old 03-26-2007   #8
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I would bet that these detentions have more to do with our own detention of five IRGC cadres in Iraq and a certain IRGC general in Turkey than anything else.

IMO the Iranians are among the world's most cynical political players. They were more than happy to take Israeli and American antitank missiles when they needed them in the 1980s, and to make a deal with the apostate heretic Saddam when the army told them to in 1988 even though it killed Khoemeini. No doubt certain elements would love a war with the U.S. but the majority of the Iranian power establishment are Stalinists rather than Trotskyists, to abuse an old horse once again.
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Old 03-26-2007   #9
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Well, like or not, ALL Word looks at US and our behavior and see double standards… It was just question of time that someone will try to play game by same rules (US, Brits and NATO have “right” to arrest and kidnap anyone they wish and hold them indefinitely; jews have nukes and continue to kill civilians, kids, journalists while West do nothing; wars started based on lies; invasions without thinking or planning on public reaction; betting on wrong tactics and ideas through ALL Middle East that just backfire on every step…).

Pessimist I am to, but from different angle.

PS.
CNN in one report says that Brits was in Iranian waters… I think, UK or US will do the same if Iranians of anyone else cross in they waters. Right?
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Old 03-26-2007   #10
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The matter is in dispute, made worse by the fact that Iran and Iraq have quite undefined maritime boundaries.
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Old 03-26-2007   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarajevo071 View Post
Well, like or not, ALL Word looks at US and our behavior and see double standards… It was just question of time that someone will try to play game by same rules (US, Brits and NATO have “right” to arrest and kidnap anyone they wish and hold them indefinitely; jews have nukes and continue to kill civilians, kids, journalists while West do nothing; wars started based on lies; invasions without thinking or planning on public reaction; betting on wrong tactics and ideas through ALL Middle East that just backfire on every step…).

Pessimist I am to, but from different angle.

PS.
CNN in one report says that Brits was in Iranian waters… I think, UK or US will do the same if Iranians of anyone else cross in they waters. Right?
Wrong. We, like most "civilized" countries do not indefinitely detain folks just for straying into territorial waters and then threaten to execute them. We also don't steal Romanian oil rigs by force. Iran is NOT a civilized country by even mid-east standards.

And frankly, I laughed my ass off when we captured those Iranian "diplomats" in their "unofficial" diplomatic mission. Turnabout is fair play. Now, we just need to hold them 444 days....
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Old 03-26-2007   #12
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LOL!!

Ok. If you don’t mind, I will agree with you on some points and on some I will need to disagree.

Last edited by Sarajevo071; 03-26-2007 at 08:52 PM.
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Old 03-26-2007   #13
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Default Subject as Above

Now this begins to smell !

Quote:
LONDON, England (CNN) -- Eight British sailors and marines have left Iran three days after they were detained by Iran's military for straying into Iranian territorial waters.
Especially this part:

Quote:
another video released by the Iranians showed two of the men standing by the waterway, identifying themselves as Thomas Hawkins, a Marine, and Chief Petty Officer Robert Webster of the Royal Navy. Both apologized for their actions.
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Old 03-27-2007   #14
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- after they had their nuts put in a vise they agreed to apologize ..... I bet most of them slipped on the stairs too while in iranian custody and have unfortunate bruising all over their bodies
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Old 03-27-2007   #15
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Stan, are you sure those aren't from last year? AFAIK none of the Brits have been released as yet.
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Old 03-27-2007   #16
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Default A puzzlement

Guys, I wonder about how this came about. 2 British RIBs from the frigate HMS Cornwall board a ship in Iraqi waters. After the search as they depart they are intercepted by Iranian gunboats and taken prisoner. Where was Cornwall? It looks like she mounts a 5 inch gun? Why didn't she use it? Could she have been out of range? If so, why would that be allowed to happen?

Cheers

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Old 03-27-2007   #17
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Default Flying The Jolly Roger

Nabbing sailors bolsters the faith of the Revolutionary Guard and the Basijji foot soldiers. It notches up the status of Iran in the minds of jihadists. It scares the hell out of businessmen/investors. It makes a nice smoke screen and diversion from the sanctions just put in place, as SWJED has pointed out and it goads hot-heads like me into a confrontation when the rest of the world is not ready for confrontation. Killing Iranians is strictly off limits for the time being and the mother ship had no choice but to hold her fire as her men were being abducted. It's a damn bitter pill to swallow - may a pack of Raptors and other assorted high tech nastiness soon descend upon the devils.
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Old 03-27-2007   #18
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Default Surely you jest...

Surely you jest, Goesh. I can't believe that the Brits would be that consciously careless with the risk to the lives and liberty of their own. On the other hand, a commander who loses his men through carelessness or cowardice is likely to be brought up on charges in any military service - Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines - of any nation be it the US, the UK, or Argentina.

I wholeheartedly agree with your last statement about Raptors and other high tech weapons of destruction.
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Old 03-27-2007   #19
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Default Sooner Than Later?

From the AP: 3/27:

"DUBAI, United Arab Emirates - The U.S. Navy on Tuesday began its largest demonstration of force in the Persian Gulf since the 2003 invasion of Iraq, led by a pair of aircraft carriers and backed by warplanes flying simulated attack maneuvers off the coast of Iran.

The maneuvers bring together two strike groups of U.S. warships and more than 100 U.S. warplanes to conduct simulated air warfare in the crowded Gulf shipping lanes.

The U.S. exercises come just four days after Iran’s capture of 15 British sailors and marines who Iran said had strayed into Iranian waters near the Gulf. Britain and the U.S. Navy have insisted the British sailors were operating in Iraqi waters."

What the Navy needs is to institute the old concept of the press gang and press crews of burnt out old grunts like myself into service with shotguns and molotovs in hopped up cigar boats disguised as fishing sloops. Let us hoist the stars and bars when we make contact and engage the small craft of the iranian revolutionary guard naval forces. If you're going to have an international incident, it's best to do it the old fashioned way.

I doubt the Brits knew what was happening until they were on them, drawn down on them. My .02 worth says the iranians would have opened fired on them had they fled.
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Old 03-27-2007   #20
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Default Stars and Bars?

Jolly Roger works for me! Where can I sign up? But, I'd really like to mount a minigun...

I supect you are right about the RIBs. But my question about Cornwall still holds.
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