Terrorist Prisoners and Deradicalization

[davidbfpo]

Fuchs,

I've read a few books on this theme and none refer to this activity. Some mention is made of leaving gangs behind. John Horgan has written on the issue, so maybe check his writings?

davidbfpo

[marct]

Hi David,

I've read a few books on this theme and none refer to this activity. Some mention is made of leaving gangs behind. John Horgan has written on the issue, so maybe check his writings?

Cult deprogramming was fairly big in the US and, to a lessor degree, in Canada in the 1970's and 80's. Here are a couple of references:

Combatting Cult Mind Control: The #1 Best-selling Guide to Protection, Rescue, and Recovery from Destructive Cults

Strange Gods: The Great American Cult Scare

The Politics of Religious Apostasy: The Role of Apostates in the Transformation of Religious Movements (Religion in the Age of Transformation)

[goesh]

There is no empirical data to even suggest there is a lessening amongst our foes in their efforts to seek spiritual purity, the good death. We come at this problem with our linear, 3 dimensional thinking, grabbing at telelogical snippets taken from Jung, Skinner and Freud, attempting to construct theoretical models of how men can be dissuaded from the path of spiritual purity. I think the complexity of conversions of this nature are beyond our Western capabililty of fully understanding. If it is working in Saudi Arabia, we can't fully understand it and we can only best honor the purists by shooting them in the head. It can be argued that the upsurge of IEDs and other detonations in Afghan is tactical but I think not. It is but an exacerbation of the recent actions in the Swat valley, a mere shifting of energy and resources towards the Afghan flank, part and parcel of their circular thinking and culture.

[marct]

Hi Goesh,

There is no empirical data to even suggest there is a lessening amongst our foes in their efforts to seek spiritual purity, the good death.

Actually, there is empirical that shows that people can, and do, move away from that particular path.

We come at this problem with our linear, 3 dimensional thinking, grabbing at telelogical snippets taken from Jung, Skinner and Freud, attempting to construct theoretical models of how men can be dissuaded from the path of spiritual purity. I think the complexity of conversions of this nature are beyond our Western capabililty of fully understanding. If it is working in Saudi Arabia, we can't fully understand it and we can only best honor the purists by shooting them in the head.

Speak for yourself good buddy !

I do agree, however, that people who use a bricolage model with no empathic understanding (verstehen) are doomed to failure. Theoretical models, as I constantly tell my students, are maps with varying degrees of reflecting the actuality of the terrain. Most of these models suffer from pretty serious flaws including, but not limited to, the basic beliefs of those who try to use them. If we want to understand and model "spiritual purity", then we really have to experience some form of it.

Years ago, back when I was working on my BA, I spent quite a bit of time reading the writings of mystics. One of the things that really stood out was that mystics frome every religious tradition had more in common with each other than with their supposed co-religionists. A second point, that became clearer with a lot of reading on ritual, was that all religious symbol systems are quite limited and fragile and what mystics do is to leverage the paradoxes in them to expand beyond their boundaries to achieve what you are calling "spiritual purity".

When we look at what AQ and others of their psychotic ilk are doing, however, we can see that they are restricting the symbol systems even more than normal. This is, actually, a rather unstable proposition (symbol systems have a certain "habit" of returning to core configurations), and that is where the leverage point is - the symbolic centre of gravity if you will. If you want an example inside Islam, look at the AQ habit of declaring people takfir at the drop of a hat - that is an extremely unstable symbolic configuration.

[Rex Brynen]

I think the complexity of conversions of this nature are beyond our Western capabililty of fully understanding. If it is working in Saudi Arabia, we can't fully understand it and we can only best honor the purists by shooting them in the head.

In the case of Egypt's very successful deradicalization effort, carrot and stick methods—including regulation of conjugal visits by prisoners' wives—were used to induce the shift. It has been a major shift too, with the once militant Islamic Group and parts of Jihad now engaged in active proselytization for the cause of non-violent Islamism, and engaged in a very pointed rhetorical battle with AQ over the issue.

There are many other factors at play too, including theological engagement by pro-regime clerics (more important in Saudi Arabia than Egypt) and longer term socialization by civil society, but I'm not sure that the dynamics of deradicalization are inherently so complex and culturally-bound as to not be understandable. (Replicable by outsiders is, however, another thing!)

[davidbfpo]

A short article by Shiraz Maher on the Saudi Arabian prison de-radicalisation programme: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000..._LEFTTopBucket

Starts with:

It is now clear that the failed terrorist attack by Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab on Christmas Day was directed by al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP). The reasons for the sudden resurgence of this previously almost extinct chapter of the global jihad network lie not in Yemen, though—where AQAP is based—but across the border in Saudi Arabia.

Ends with:

Omar Ashour, an expert on deradicalization programs at Exeter University, thinks this approach will ultimately result in more recidivism. "The Egyptians tried something similar in the 1970s and failed," he says. "The Saudi program is not comprehensive because it doesn't address the wider issue of religious and ideological reformation. While it doesn't do that, it can only offer a temporary panacea."

It appears that as long as the Saudis fail to address the regressive literalism and intolerance of their own state religion—which fuels radical Islam around the world—they will also fail to rehabilitate true jihadis.

The author is an ex-radical from Hizb-ut-Tahrir, who has written and reported on radicalisation for several years and was linked to UK "think tank" Policy Exchange - not known for an anti-Saudi stance.

An interesting balance to Christopher Boucek's longer period of work on the issue cited earlier.

[graphei]

I believe Time had a piece on this a few years ago and the Saudis trotted outs some stats on how successful their program is. I wonder what the re-lapse rate is a few years out?

I always found it deeply ironic that the Saudis of all people are rehabilitating jihadis.