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Thread: Yemen 2016 onwards: an intractable war?

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  1. #1
    Council Member CrowBat's Avatar
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    The RSAF lost a Tornado IDS over northern Yemen, on 6 January 2018.

    The crew of two was recovered (Photos of the two crewmembers).

    Houthis claimed the fighter-bomber as 'shot down'.

    That all said, alone the fact the Houthis are now down to reporting every single SAM they fire, is speaking volumes about the condition of their frontlines...

  2. #2
    Council Member CrowBat's Avatar
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    The Houthis... erm... sorry: the ex-Army and Air Force troops that sided with the Houthis, are now officially into the business of producing some spectacular videos of various ex-YAF's AAMs in use as SAMs.

    Today they claimed to have shot down an RSAF F-15S over Sana'a - and supported this claim by this video.

    Another video is showing the actual aftermath:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R32oNrD5VJs

    But, this affair remains interesting.

    Firstly, the Saudi pilot botched up by engaging afterburner at the same time he (or his WSO) began deploying flares. Obviously, that's counterproductive.

    The Houthis... erm... (sorry: me again)... ex-YAF officers that joined the Houthis, seem to be using FLIR 8500s provided by the USA to the ex-YAF as part of 'support in the war on terror', back in 2012-2014...

    ...and Soviet/Russian-made R-73s as SAMs.

    Overall, seems the SAM hit the third flare, probably damaged that F-15S too. Though nothing was shot down.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrowBat View Post
    The RSAF lost a Tornado IDS over northern Yemen, on 6 January 2018.

    The crew of two was recovered (Photos of the two crewmembers).

    Houthis claimed the fighter-bomber as 'shot down'.

    That all said, alone the fact the Houthis are now down to reporting every single SAM they fire, is speaking volumes about the condition of their frontlines...
    So the video featuring a Flir Ultra 8500 is correct? But people are reporting the downed aircraft as a F-15...

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    Council Member CrowBat's Avatar
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    People are mixing two different claims:

    - 6 January, northern Sa'ada: RSAF Tornado IDS was either shot down or crashed; crew of two recovered;

    - 8 January (or 7 January, along that video), Sana'a area: RSAF F-15S targeted by an R-73, and probably damaged.

    The Flir Ultra 8500 was shown on a video related to the second claim.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CrowBat View Post
    People are mixing two different claims:

    - 6 January, northern Sa'ada: RSAF Tornado IDS was either shot down or crashed; crew of two recovered;

    - 8 January (or 7 January, along that video), Sana'a area: RSAF F-15S targeted by an R-73, and probably damaged.

    The Flir Ultra 8500 was shown on a video related to the second claim.
    Thanks. Isn't this quite a big deal? After all, the R-73 was jury-rigged as a SAM, when it is an AAM...

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    Council Member CrowBat's Avatar
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    Not really.

    DIY SAMs made of R-60s and R-73s were first deployed by Serbs during the NATO intervention in 1999; then again - though for 'surface-to-surface' purposes - during the Libyan uprising of 2011, etc.

    The Yemenis are deploying them, plus SAMs made of R-27Ts (IR-homing variant of the AA-10 Alamo), since something like 4-5 months and have already fired dozens - without any kind of success.

    The part that is 'a little bit of a deal' is that seeker-heads of such weapons require a supply of coolant liquid once they are activated (while still on the launch rail). Uninstalling elements of the the same - at least from wreckage of one of MiG-29SMs destroyed at Daylami AB - is no big deal at all. It's the provision of power and the coolant liquid necessary for the resulting 'system' to remain operational for 30-50 seconds prior to launch (acquisition, tracking and the firing sequences), that are.

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    Trump and the Yemen War: Misrepresenting the Houthis as Iranian proxies

    http://sanaacenter.org/publications/analysis/5201


    Regardless of the involvement of foreign actors on all sides of the war, Yemen’s conflict remains fundamentally tied to internal dynamics. This is particularly true of the Houthis and their actions; despite their ties with and backing from Iran, Houthi leaders’ fundamental consideration is local power dynamics.33 Casting the Houthis as Iranian pawns and framing them solely in regional sectarian terms, with little identity otherwise, ignores the factors motivating Houthi supporters and elides the group’s ideology and decision-making process.

    Whether the US administration intends to pursue war or peace, failing to understand the motivations, actions and nature of the Houthis — and instead treating them as puppets of a foreign power — lays the groundwork for flawed decision making; one cannot expect to effectively counter an adversary without understanding how and why they fight. The Trump administration’s erroneous framing of the conflict thus represents a significant danger: for instance, the failure to understand the Houthis, their motivations and how they consolidated their power in northern Yemen renders it all the more difficult to exert political, diplomatic or even military pressure on the group.

    Proper foreign policy regarding the Houthis requires a deeper understanding of how the group functions. For instance, the Houthis have been able to continue prosecuting the conflict not because of Iranian support, but rather through their ability to capitalize on tribal networks under their control, their knowledge of the terrain, their control over key military installations and, increasingly, conflict-enabled revenue streams. Indeed, rather than being beholden to Tehran, numerous western diplomats having stated that when the Houthis entered Sana’a in September 2014 they did so against the advice of Iranian officials.34 Then in March 2016, the Houthis engaged in direct talks with Saudi officials that led to a de facto ceasefire along the Saudi-Yemeni border. The border ceasefire largely held until the breakdown of UN-sponsored peace talks in Kuwait in August 2016. Recent events surrounding Saleh’s death undoubtedly complicate peace efforts – among other things adding to the distrust between the Houthis and Saudi-led coalition members. Nonetheless, both the Houthis and Saudi Arabia are surely aware that any eventual sustainable peace agreement it will require the other’s buy in.

    Thus, overemphasizing the Houthis’ foreign ties while ignoring local factors and the means of weakening or pressuring the Houthis is ultimately likely to breed policies that are ineffectual at best, and counterproductive at worst. This is particularly true with regards to the risk that the “pawn of Iran” framing becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy – that is, creating circumstances that prompt or even oblige the Houthis to further strengthen ties with Iran, or vice versa. In some regards, this has already been seen since the Saudi-led coalition launched its military intervention in Yemen in March 2015, under the name Operation Decisive Storm. According to a variety of western and Yemeni officials, following the coalition’s intervention Iranian support to and coordination with the Houthis expanded. Indeed, the Houthi reliance on this support increased as international isolation left them with few other potential partners.

    US policy that casts the Houthis as an extension of Iranian interest will likely only lend momentum to this Houthi drift toward the Iranian sphere of influence. First, it would further isolate the Houthis internationally and continue to weaken incentives against greater cooperation with Iran. Second — and perhaps most importantly — it would increase Tehran’s incentives to expand its activities in Yemen.

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    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Even Popular Mechanics weighs in, on the plane(s) that fell down and ends with:
    It’s war in the age of the Internet, and the truth takes some time to untangle
    Link:http://www.popularmechanics.com/mili...n-f15-tornado/
    davidbfpo

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