How Sri Lanka defeated the LTTE

[tequila]

How is something "OK" in Iraq and Afghanistan, but almost exactly the same action "not OK" in Gaza?

"Almost" exactly?

Call me when U.S. forces kill over 250 children in Marjah, or when Marjah turns into one of the most densely-populated parts of the world.

Also, like I said, do you guys have any real examples of an "unjust" war crimes prosecution by the ICRC (which the U.S. does not even support) or even any solid examples of how the U.S. or the West is losing "global influence" (I thought we didn't really care how the rest of the world thought of us, Ken, since they are fated to hate us/be jealous of us no matter what?) due to our insistence on care for civilians in wartime?

[William F. Owen]

Call me when U.S. forces kill over 250 children in Marjah, or when Marjah turns into one of the most densely-populated parts of the world.

Just in Marjah, or in the 2003 invasion? Amiriyah in 1991?

Moreover population density is highly variable and context specific, and I've never seen it specified in ROE.

Point being, in Afghanistan alone since 2001, as a result of US military action you have:
direct deaths: at least 5,568 - 8,360
indirect deaths in initial invasion: 3,200 - 20,000
direct & indirect deaths: 8,768 - 28,360

You can argue all you want about the accuracy of these figures. Folks are rarely swayed by facts.
Now let us be clear. If it really mattered, air strikes and artillery would simply not be used in Afghanistan. - but this is the real world and war is extremely complicated, messy and unpredictable, so civilians will always die, once you start using force. American lives matter more to Americans than Afghans. - and that rule applies for most peoples.

My point being it is easy to pontificate about levels of force used, when it is not your civilian population under fire, and your own strategic requirements are far less pressing.

[Ken White]

of little real worth so I don't pay them much heed...

even any solid examples of how the U.S. or the West is losing "global influence" (I thought we didn't really care how the rest of the world thought of us, Ken, since they are fated to hate us/be jealous of us no matter what?) due to our insistence on care for civilians in wartime?

I do not know if we're losing global influence, nor do I or most Americans particularly care. I also believe that said 'influence' is predicated to a great extent on the strength of the USD. What I do know is that our popularity fluctuates wildly but has never been great so far as the rest of the world is concerned.

Said popularity does go up when we save someone from from a bad day (which happens a lot) and it goes down when we throw our weight around or screw something up (which happens even more often). In my observation, our popularity was not great in 1947 (first year I paid attention) and has been on a generally downhill slope with only occasional upticks since. mid to immediate post Viet Nam was the lowest point I've seen. Iraq was just a slight downturn compared to VN.

The fact that no one like to be bailed out of difficulty by someone else also intrudes; immediate gratitude turns to resentment...

All that to reiterate that I and many I know do not really care (a few I know do care -- but not a great deal...) what the rest of the world thinks of us; that our 'global influence' is and off and on thing dependent on many factors; and that the fact that we espouse one rule for ourselves and varied more stringent rules for others merely makes us hypocritical -- the effect of that on our popularity or influence is indeterminable and infinitely variable. That effect has nothing to do with what I said or why I said it.

Our 'insistence' on care for civilians in wartime is a totally practical thing. Killing or harming too many has adverse military effect; we're simply trying to avoid that. That 'concern' is enhanced nowadays for propaganda reasons and to be politically correct and placate the American left. I suspect much of it would go out the window if we had a real war on our hands. You read this? (LINK). Shows what happens when the gloves are removed, whole different attitude. And the American left was in charge then...

[Backwards Observer]

The fact that no one like to be bailed out of difficulty by someone else also intrudes; immediate gratitude turns to resentment...

Reminds me of something a nice old Chinese guy told me, he started out as an orphan working in the Malayan tin mines before WW2 and ended up quite successful. He said, "In this life, don't hurt anyone...but don't help anyone either." I used to think he was joking.

[Ken White]

'will sooner or later' turn to resentment.

Very wise oriental gentleman you talked to...

[Backwards Observer]

Very wise oriental gentleman you talked to...

His wife would sometimes stand behind him rolling her eyes and making, "don't listen to him, he's loco", motions. Without turning around, he'd say, "Pay no attention to her, she's always trying to help people." Funny.