I agree with you on this one, another thread taken over by a hundred meaningless twitter posts, and no space allowed for debate. While he challenged you to respond to his excessive number of posts, he hasn't responded to the criticism of Clinton. This thread is almost effectively dead.Originally Posted by slapout9
This thread isn't about Clinton. That subject was closed by the election. The subject is President Elect Trump. So let's here what you, or anyone else, has to say.
"I can change almost anything ... but I can't change human nature."
Jon Osterman/Dr. Manhattan
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Here is a place to start:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...492_story.html
He is just like every other politician. Now that he is in office, the truth will start to come out. The reality is that he can't do most of what he claimed without assuming powers that the President doesn't have. So now the truth comes out.
Last edited by TheCurmudgeon; 11-12-2016 at 02:28 AM.
"I can change almost anything ... but I can't change human nature."
Jon Osterman/Dr. Manhattan
---
Disagree, outlaw made assertions about why people voted for Trump. In many, if not most cases, it was due to he was running against, not because they embraced Trump; therefore, she is relevant.
Regarding Trump, I think he will hit a steep learning curve, and rapidly try to walk away from many of his campaign promises that we're little more than fantasies. If he attempts to befriend Putin, he will lose the respect of the national security establishment and Congress. Domestically, if he starts going after illegals in a way that isn't legal or against the values most Americans embrace he'll build a wall between Congress and the White House. Then so much for making a deal. So he'll either disappoint his true supporters, or isolate himself from those necessary to advance his agenda. There will be rough spots, but our check and balance system will moderate them. It remains possible that he will actually be a decent President, the jury is still out. At this point neither the prosecutor or the defense have a case, so all we can really discuss with any degree of fact is why people voted for him.
The social movement in many parts of the world that brought us Brexit and Trump in broad terms is due to a backlash against globalization and the new economic order. A condition very relevant to the SWJ community for what it portends.
Last edited by Bill Moore; 11-12-2016 at 08:16 AM.
Bill....if you recall a number of my comments pertaining to Trump well before the actual election I was seriously warning of his lies and deceptions and his model that he was pushing which is neo nationalistic built on a healthy dose of racism driven by the KKK and the alt Right ....AND the 270 armed militias.
For concrete proof for what I just said check Trump's very last campaign ad and then count ...yes literally count the number of anti Semitic dog whistles being blared at his followers.....AND YES I use the term fellow travelers very accurately here....
I reside in the land of the living history of a man called Hitler who used a weak and splintered democracy to move his agenda forward USING the same exact dog whistles that Trump and company have used....SO I saw long before many saw in the US just where he was heading and tried to warn.
OUR democracy is a shell of what it use to be....WHY
26.6% of those that voted voted for Clinton
26.4% of those that voted voted for Trump
Actually the Clinton general election votes are still steadily climbing
BUT here is the kicker....over 49% of those that could have DID NOT VOTE
So in effect we now have a minority elected President and a minority splintered Republican Party claiming a MANDATE to rule the majority of the rest of the country.....THAT is a plan that goes over with them like a lead balloon.....look at the term "legitimacy".....and tell me Trump has "legitimacy" to represent the majority of Americans who actually did not vote for him......
We have a minority who voted for Trump trying to turn back the historical clock to a "better time"....WHEN both you and I from a vast amount of experience simply knows that will never work...WHY because we are educated...maybe speak a foreign language ...have travelled this world of ours...have fought and lost close friends in the name of defending this country and on and on......
WHY do you now think we are having the pop up demos across the country as the minority that won the election vote feel robbed....and I predict this movement will both grow and get more radical if in fact Trump follows through....there is actually a great resemblance of the peaceful start of Syrian demos and the reaction of Assad against them we are seeing ever so subtly develop out of this election.
WHAT those Trumpers do not fully understand yet is that their great leader STATED 141 times 141 different comments to them at rallies on 23 different topics......
THINK about that for a moment....WHY did he do that....BECAUSE now he can do what he wants and then claim that is exactly what he stated he was going to do....does one see yet a well planned demagogue hard at work...
WHAT concerns me is the following...
Trump if one has followed him over the years was basically for years a Democrat in belief and statements.....
BUT then suddenly he appears in the birther movement well actually he drove the birther movement only appearing lately to back away from his statements WHICH he really did not...he just wanted black votes...
WHAT I love about social media is the ability to pull back the past and relook at what individuals posted and then did...and there is much on Trump if the US MSM had taken the time to research and fact find.....
CHECK his tweets and statements stating with the 2012 reelection of Obama....especially when he gets on a particular twitter rant....he voiced hatred for the electoral college...hatred for the election process and between the lines he fully indicates that he a full blown racist at heart...BUT that never came up in the US MSM ....
Simply but Trump is a racist...a bigot...a sexual predator who used and abuses his power over women and people and he is at heart a deeply committed con artist who has floated a ponzi scheme called property management....WITH currently 630M USDs of debt that has to be serviced yearly and that debt burden is climbing not sinking...SO will he put his businesses health before the Republic's health if a FP decision damages his personal investments?
IT is a Ponzi scheme when one goes bankrupt six times.....no wonder the US banks have refused to deal with him ...BUT again never fully explored by MSM during the election was it???
NOW we have a new President that evidently very quickly settled a fraud and racketeering federal court case so he would not have to personally testify personally in a court of law arguing up to Thursday that as President elect he did not have "time to testify"....THAT is his "respect for the rule of law" full in your face and the Trumpers who voted for him fully understood that...
NOW we have a new President that instead of truly placing his businesses into a true blind trust which means management by a outside company not picked by him and overseen by a not picked by him law firm WE get his definition of a blind trust...."my family is going to run it".....
NOW convince me his sons and daughter will not utter...speak...write a single word about his businesses inside that blind trust....to him over dinner??
WHAT concerns me far more that his sex problems or his financial problems is his inherent and slowly coming out deep ties to Russian money and oligarchs and yes Putin is a 40B USD oligarch...and Trump is in constant need of cash for his business empire....
WHAT concerns me is that server that was in the Trump Tower which conversed daily to someone in the Alpha Bank in Moscow AND that apparently was ongoing over months....what concerns me is the blatant lie by both his campaign management AND Trump himself TWICE inside four months...."we do not have ties to anything Russian and or Russians"...
The configuration of that server parallels exactly what the Russian SVR does to ensure confidential comms over the internet for their recruited agents and deep covers AND that was alluded to by some very serious internet geeks....
THEN one day after the election Russian officials under approval from Moscow openly crow about their constant ties during the election to Trump..well maybe a little MSM interest and Putin's personal spokesperson wants to fly immediately to NYC...before any other western leader visits him....come on people wake up and smell the roses....
As someone who thoroughly understand Stasi and KGB recruitment tactics find me someone inside the current US IC CI community that does not honestly feel with the track record of Trump in sex.... drugs..soft porn videos... and rock and roll the SVR did not attempt to either directly recruit him and or has compromising material on him....IMHO it is a given....
The Founding Fathers were inherently fearful of the "masses" thus we have the Electoral College that Trump hated in 2012 but loves now....what you say we have a SC...sorry it will be a 5/4 court and evidently a 6/4 right wing court for literally years to come even if the Republicans loss at some point .....you say we have the various splits inside the RP in Congress that will balance...him...We have 38 State Governors controlling 38 Red States with massive gerrymandering programs and some very slick voter suppression programs in place.....BTW all out so called "checks and balances are based on "traditions" not the rule of law if one paid close attention in the HS Civics class.
SO I see no checks and balances as you do...WHICH is exactly what Hitler had going forward in 33...
You say we have the great FBI to keep corruption out of the political marketplace BUT that same RP controlled FBI leaked very badly on Clinton and somehow missed all the proRussian adivsors around Trump...Manafort...Page.... and to a degree Woolsely....who never fired a single person inside the CIA for their failure to detect Ames and then he suddenly quit when there were demands to dig deeper inside the CIA as some stated there were more Ames in play as there always is just as we are seeing now inside the NSA.....
Taken all together....if you...I or anyone else that posted on SWJ had committed over 30 years what Trump has done and proven he has done we would never seen a single security clearance in our lifetimes...
Here is the kicker..if one has been to Moscow and has done business with foreign nationals THAT is reason alone to go far deeper into his history of those travels and contacts AND if there is suspicion on the Adjudicator's part about possible "influence" THAT alone is enough to deny a clearance these days after Snowdon...
As a former strategic debriefer/interrogator with over 17 years of field experience in Europe I learned to pay extreme attention to how someone uses words...the words themselves down to the reflextion in the use of those words....now you fully understand why I was warning on SWJ....
Trump is racist end of story....Trump has been compromised by Russia....and Trump is a ponzi scheme con artist who only cares about himself end of story....
How many Trump voters have seen in their lifetimes the Hitler execution chambers here in Berlin...the mass execution/concentration sites for Jews here in Germany and the Czech Republic and how many have seen the Saddam execution chambers...
I have and I hate them.....I have close Jewish (Israeli/Russian) friends here in Berlin that are telling me they see the second coming...of a new democratically elected by US citizens of a second Hitler....
I have seen the polling of the young German and French (20-35) who by a margin of 2/3rds stated openly Trump is a threat to world peace and world stability...NEVER have I ever seen that before on a US President...yes they laughed about our Cowboy President but in the end they respected him ...BUT this time there is something far different in play....they now basically inside one election results openly distrust the US....
I have never seen a German sitting government basically warn the US to follow the principles of the rule of law and good governance to protect civil and human rights...that coming from Europeans.....
Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 11-12-2016 at 07:35 AM.
Bill...this is what I mean those that voted for Trump did not stop to count the number of times he changed his narrative EXACTLY 141 times on 23 topics...THEY HEARD the underlying narrative and took it seriously.....whereas most of the MSM took what he was saying "literally"....not "seriously".....it was the dog whistles that his supporters/followers fully understood.....
In the world of Orwell he wrote a lot about the concept of "doublespeak" in fascism and I am afraid many Americans simply do not understand that concept....
Last edited by davidbfpo; 11-19-2016 at 01:40 PM. Reason: Remove unsourced quote
Someone recently asked me to build a number of indicators that could/would indicate Trump is in "bed with Russia" ie under their "influence"...
I was up to five or six.........number SEVEN.......came fast and quick.....
Dizzy with success: Putin spokesman suggests Trump scale back NATO deployments to foster ties w Kremlin. #Baltics
http://bigstory.ap.org/295849a11d584a
IMHO.....hate to be in the current shoes of the "grey beards" in the US CI community.......THIS is a nightmare.....HOW do you reject a security clearance for the President of the US??????
A challenge to any reader here at SWJ who cares about CI....show me I am wrong on my assumptions......
HERE is an additional problem...if someone is in fact rejected from a clearance and or renewal of a clearance and has a good lawyer...they could in effect argue that Trump got his in spite of massive issues and actually win in court....the clearance community is setting a precedence for years to come...and that in the face of the Snowden affair where we know he was recruited by the SVR...
Last edited by davidbfpo; 11-19-2016 at 01:40 PM.
Perilous beyond words: Russian govt contacts w/Trump campaign is a "monumental story" demands investigating before swearing in...some outsiders seem to know what is happening before the voters of Trump know it....
Breitbart's expanding. Lotsa $$ in selling fear, hate, lies to delegitimize Obama & Clinton. Trump adviser Flynn spreads the same propaganda
While the media licks its wounds & soothes us with kinder gentler Trump, where the hell is the story of Wikileaks & Russia who helped him??
"So we're just going to forget WikiLeaks and Russia helped Trump?"
http://hill.cm/xGlKia5
Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 11-12-2016 at 08:19 AM.
Love it when people fail to remember the endless and countless so called investigations that were to reveal just how corrupt the Clintons were and are suppose to be.....DO I seriously need to repeat all of them in a very long list to readers such as Bill and Slapout...since the 90s...WHAT is that 20 or so odd years an still counting....AND over what 14 different investigations.....
AND remember their close personal friend who was an advisor who committed suicide....do I need to respinn what was spun by the Republicans for three long years when the DC Police had long before declared it a suicide due to personal reasons....AND lo an behold it came up again via Trump and company.....
Some complain that Bill got a massive speakers fee in the 100s of thousands of dollars...BUT WAIT it went into the Foundation and was IRS declared and taxed as earned income....BUT WHEN all politicians and ex Presidents hit the speakers and lobbyist circuit earning also hundreds of thousands of dollars WE declare BUT hey they earned it....BUT WAIT do we question currently the outside earnings of our own House Reps and Senators..THAT occur every single day of the year........NO...
BUT at the end of the day AFTER all those countless and endless investigations driven primarily by Republicans WHERE any charges ever filed against either of them......
Oh...and that Whitewater land deal mess the Republicans screamed about for years.....never a single charge and in the end it actually had been handled correctly.....confirmed if one took the time to read the IRS findings to be completely and truly "legal"....
Oh......and that so called pay for play accusations against Clinton for the Clinton Foundation donations in exchange for favors by the then DoS Clinton....AND pounded by Trump in each of his rallies as "that corruption swamp of the Clintons...hang her...arrest her...throw her in jail".....
WILL highly recommend you both go back to the WikiLeaks email dumps which actually when one excludes the fake Russian placed emails CLEARLY states she definitely separated office and play......BUT hey you both overlooked that tad bit of information in all the WikiLeaks chatter.
BTW...this is the same WikiLeaks that we now know was feed those hacked emails by the Russian state sponsored hacking groups...AND we know that the Russian propaganda media released a statement that Wikileaks released BUT TWO DAYS before Wikileaks released the same exact press release...strange is it not that the Russian government could read the computer of WikiLeaks and knew in advance what was to be released word for word....
Nothing like actually ignoring WikiLeaks inadvertently supporting Clinton with in those emails....
HER use of a private email server...WELL three other DoS's in the last 30 years DID the same exact thing.....BUT that never seemed to get through the chatter...
AND THOSE TWO MILLION emails deleted from all of the Bush computers WHERE NOT A VIOLATION of federal law...AND not pursued by the incoming Obama........AND those 4000 Trump company emails deleted THAT the federal court told Trump to not delete as they were evidence in a fraud case...one should never thrown stones at a glass house as they can come back at you....NOTICE Trump was not called "a scheming crook trying to hide damming evidence from a federal court" was he?
Come on guys we complained about Bill's sexual adventures in the WH BUT YET WHEN we have the next President claiming he grabs women by their "pu...ies" WE declare that what "locker room talk" ....but consenting sexual encounters between two adults we seem to have problems with these days VS sexual assaults as defined by law by the now new President....
WHEN 12 and still counting women over a period of 20 years come forward and state he treated them exactly as his videos indicates...we call them lairs and Trump wants to sue them.....WHEN he comes into the WH with 72 pending state and federal court cases we call him a great businessman....WHEN he has had a total of SIX bankruptcies and has to service monthly a debt load of 650M USDs we call him a REALLY GREAT businessman.....
WHEN a sitting Republican Representative cheers the fact he got the security funding for the Benghzi Consulate cut months before the attack as a sign of Republican success against the then DoS Clinton and then later American personnel get killed...."IT was the fault of that corrupt Clinton".....AND WE ignore the Reps comments and actions that contributed directly to their deaths....AND we ignore DoD held back a DELTA team that was waiting on the tarmac because DoD could not get their act in order to respond to the WH.......
WHEN you critique me be ready to respond to facts line by line....
SO when we accept in the realm of public debate statements by the now new President ..."she is a crook...needs to be in jail...I will jail her when I take over...she sold out the DoS for money....."
We are suppose to what accept that as the new standard of political discourse....????
I chose a new nationality simply because I feel that both Trump and the current Republican Party no longer represent the values that I felt for years the US represented and with my wounds and spilled blood for this country in 18 long months of pure combat and in serving in two other wars I have long ago earned the right to be critical...far more critical than say a Slapout that accepts what he apparently "hears" to be the gospel and truth...
BTW Slapout I was not a supporter of the VN far from it but when my country asked me...well maybe ordered me to VN.....I went and did my best and lost a lot of close friends along the way.....which you have never experienced.
So I have the inherent right to critisize when I think the US is headed the wrong way....
Slapout and Bill...the floor is open for debate....now prove me wrong...
Listening......
BTW....here is the inherent kicker now...IF you really look at the email issue with Clinton....WHEN you are in public service even as a First Lady you are inherently open to FOIA requests...and both Clintons have been literally hounded by FOIAs for 20 years....BUT a private personal server does not fall under FOIA....
NOW that Trump is a government paid employee HE is fully liable now to fulfill ALL FOIAs coming into his office....there are hundreds now lining up to file FOIAs on every single aspect of his business and personal life....he will shortly learn what the Clintons have felt like living under FOIA.
QUESTION is...is that private server sitting in his Trump Tower used for months for direct conversation with someone in the Russian Alpha Bank located in the heart of Moscow going to be declared "private"...BTW the server was scrubbed clean and reconfigured after it become known that it was chatting with Russia....
AND this does not worry the both of you...it does me?
BTW...one could argue that Clinton have gotten the same punishment as did General Petraeus who also got caught with classified materials....BIG difference though...Petraeus "parked classified" information in a email draft and parked it in his email draft box for his girlfriend a journalist to log into his account and then read the draft email....that is a deliberate and clear violation of security regs....and the method used to transfer that info was a deliberate attempt to hide that he knew what he was doing....end of story...
Last edited by davidbfpo; 11-19-2016 at 01:45 PM.
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