The Army: A Profession of Arms

[slapout9]

This is from the article and is a direct quote from CvC but it does not cite the exact passage.

“The moral elements
are the most important in war.
They constitute the spirit that permeates
war as a whole, and at an early
stage they establish a close affinity
with the will that moves and leads the
whole mass of force. . . . History provides
the strongest proof of the importance
of moral factors and their often
incredible effect.”


But here is my interpretation of that. Moral is what is right and wrong and if you are morally right you will have high morale (spirit to fight for what is right)
and the physical manifestation of both Moral and Morale will be your Leaders and the enemies Leaders. And that would make them COG's for both physical attacks and propaganda attacks (morally wrong war).

[Chris Case]

This is from the article and is a direct quote from CvC but it does not cite the exact passage.

“The moral elements
are the most important in war.
They constitute the spirit that permeates
war as a whole, and at an early
stage they establish a close affinity
with the will that moves and leads the
whole mass of force. . . . History provides
the strongest proof of the importance
of moral factors and their often
incredible effect.”


But here is my interpretation of that. Moral is what is right and wrong and if you are morally right you will have high morale (spirit to fight for what is right)
and the physical manifestation of both Moral and Morale will be your Leaders and the enemies Leaders. And that would make them COG's for both physical attacks and propaganda attacks (morally wrong war).

slapout9,

That may be your interpretation, but I don't think it has anything to do necessarily with what is right or wrong. I think it is a charitable interpretation and would be happy if that is what it actually meant. I just don't see the evidence in Clausewitz. It may be there and he may mean that the right side will win because their morale will be high, again, I just haven't read that part. Even given your interpretation, I don't know how from any of this (the quote + the interpretation) we can determine anything about what is "right and wrong" other than through "history" and the "effects" of the spirit and its close affinity to the will. If you are correct, does it mean that Clausewitz is telling us either that the good will always win because they will have high morale or whoever wins just is good because they had high morale, based on the right morals and we discover those things based on who won a contest of wills? How does the relation between morale and the moral work to determine what is right or wrong? Or, am I missing the point?

If we interpret Clausewitz as saying something about the will in reference to Kant and "the Good Will" then we may be on to an interpretation that could include determining "right and wrong." But, I don't think that is the point of this discussion or whether the texts support that view.

Regards,
Chris

[slapout9]

Chris,
1-I think CvC is saying that is why we have wars. Right and Wrong is often just somebodies opinion.

2- Which is why I believe in situation ethics. I posted this on another thread but I think it has bearing here. Especially important to the military because what is right or wrong will depend on the situation, A moral METT-TC if you will. This was popular in the 60's so you will see that the ultimate moral is "God is love" I learned it from my grandfather as God = good, close to the Kantian idea of Good will as a duty but you may not agree.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Situational_ethics