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Thread: I'll take decisions that confuse me for a $100 Alex

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  1. #1
    Council Member 120mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmm99 View Post
    Without downloading the entire MCM .pdf (which would be a good idea, though), that Manual's text is here. Your example is not an unlawful general order:



    http://usmilitary.about.com/od/punit...es/a/mcm92.htm

    The GEN may have read the article by the Marine SGT and decided to lighten up his infantry. The GEN has no obligation to explain his general orders to an LT. Your option is to protest the order up the chain.

    Please note there is a very gray and limited exception:
    That is a very limited and legalistic way to look at it. As a commander, at any level, I reserve the right to disobey any "order" I choose to, based on two criteria.

    First, do I think it is a "moral" order. Screw what's legal. If I reasonably expect that the order will result in an immoral result, I'll tell the CoC to sit and spin and force them to relieve me. I would then fight them tooth and claw with every weapon at my disposal, up to and including the court of public opinion, if General Moron forces me to.

    Second, as the commander on the ground, I have the power to disobey any order I don't agree with for tactical or technical reasons. Unfortunately, the JAG-driven, risk-averse micro-manager types have lost sight of what constitutes "command". If I am a commander, you can give me a mission, but you cannot necessarily give me "orders". (See "Major Dundee" the movie, for an illustration).

    Of course, once a commander chooses to maximize his/her command perogative, he/she must dig the Sicilian equivalent two graves.... Because the consequences will probably leave a mark.

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    Council Member Ken White's Avatar
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    Default Well said. Operating at a lower level

    but having cumulatively several years of tactical command in combat, I always did what you suggest. I termed this "Professor White's Patent Policy of Selective Neglect."

    To eliminate the negative and civilian connotations, this was re-named in the late 60s by The World's Greatest Major (then, later TWGLTC and TWGC *) as "AR 100-White, Selective Combat Compliance"

    * As such he also assisted in development of AR 350-White, Training to Exceed Doctrinal Bounds.

    Seriously -- You have to do what's right, that simple.

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    This thread gets more depressing and embarrassing as the days pass.

    Nice to see that this particular GO has been allowed to become a Divsion Commander, and one of my classmates at CGSC was present at the 4th ID "Captain's Round Up", and said it was beyond insulting to their intelligence.

    Looks like there's a trend emerging.
    "Speak English! said the Eaglet. "I don't know the meaning of half those long words, and what's more, I don't believe you do either!"

    The Eaglet from Lewis Carroll's Alice in Wonderland

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    Council Member Ken White's Avatar
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    depressing and embarrassing? What's the trend?

    Serious questions both.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 120mm View Post
    That is a very limited and legalistic way to look at it. As a commander, at any level, I reserve the right to disobey any "order" I choose to, based on two criteria.
    ...
    Second, as the commander on the ground, I have the power to disobey any order I don't agree with for tactical or technical reasons.
    I suspect that 120mm is correct on this one. Granted, this was 12 years ago, but I recall reading an incident in Hackworth's autobiography in which he was tried for disobeying an order in combat. He writes about how flabbergasted he was at his lawyer for not saying a word throughout the proceeding until, finally, after lengthy arguments by the prosecution, his lawyer stood and simply quoted some regulation that says, in effect, "the commander on the ground gets the last call." And that was all it took. He was free as a bird. And that bird did not change.

    Quote Originally Posted by jkm_101_fso View Post
    I think an important question is:

    Who will be held responsible if an interpreter or their family are harmed as a direct result of this policy?

    My vote is MG Hammond.

    What should his punishment be?
    An accurate and well-informed bullet in his OER. And by "well-informed" I make the optimistic assumption that there is more to this decision than what is in the public record.

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