Monday late evening the BBC Radio 4's 'The World Tonight' had a special on Somalia, an interesting item and yes I hope available beyond these shores (unlike some TV links I've posted). The link is: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00k3m8d
davidbfpo
Onshore reporting
The Spectator (UK) has a columnsit Aidan hartley who is a white African farmer and writer, who has long experience of Somalia and I overlooked this article in December 2008: http://www.spectator.co.uk/the-magaz...-pirates.thtml
It provides an onshore, first-hand perspective.
davidbfpo
BBC Radio special
Monday late evening the BBC Radio 4's 'The World Tonight' had a special on Somalia, an interesting item and yes I hope available beyond these shores (unlike some TV links I've posted). The link is: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00k3m8d
davidbfpo
Got It
Of course those weren't the elders I was referring to.Originally Posted by Tom Odom
And that last is the real reason that our elders better be on board before too much is done.
Any man can destroy that which is around him, The rare man is he who can find beauty even in the darkest hours
Cogitationis poenam nemo patitur
David
good article. I discounted the bit below as the near mandatory "it is really the West's fault" comment that gets applied to African problems but otherwise a good piece.
Thanks
Tom
So what can be done? The first task is to understand the background. For years the world has ignored Somalia as a parochial African backwater involved in a nasty civil war. Hundreds of thousands have died of hunger and in hails of bullets. Our disregard for Somalia’s suffering has resulted in a metastasised crisis that is spilling out of its borders. Piracy is just one symptom of several ways — you can add gun-running and terrorism to the list — in which Somalia’s crisis will lash out at the world in 2009.
Hey Goesh ...
Depends on why you are going ashore - for what purpose - and with what resources. I wasn't thinking Peace Corps (a fine organization where it can be used). Think MEU.from g
....The notions of going ashore are predicated on a Liberal assumption ...
Actually, the idea was Todd's. I'll have to let him know that his operational tactics are based on "Liberal assumptions". That will get him going.
When all is said (above by various posters), what is done depends on political will - which at present is not committed to a military solution of any kind - other than limited self-defense measures.
From Tom,
That would probably be cheaper than attempting a nation-building project.Otherwise we might as well form convoys and pay the pirates for passage rights.
But wait, my historical guardian angel is saying something like: "millions for defense, nothing for tribute." Must be from an earlier period with more clarity of thought.
I'm with you. Who's with us?
Dunno about 1984 but in 1992, the Clan leaders (okay, not always elders. Bad choice of words on my part. No excuse.) were in charge and if there was any thing that screwed things up then it was Jonathan Howe emphasizing Bill's order to "get Aideed" followed by less than stellar military planning on the part of many. So yeah, fractured but always willing to reassert itself...
Of course they will. They'll also build Dummies. Mt point is that our technology is touted as the saving grace -- let's see how good it is...Destroying boats as a tactic is fine; recognize that the Somalis will buy, steal, or build more.I totally agree with you on all that. The question or problem is how many shakers and movers in the USG and other western capitals agree with thee and me?Afloat or ashore, some Somalis are going to get shot if this surge in piracy is to end...And yes I know times are different. That does not mean that we have to mistake stupidity for civility. Civility without firepower in Somalia is truly stupid because they merely see it as an opportunity.
jmm99, yes, Peace Corps volunteers in Somalia would literally be roasted alive. MikeF alludes to unsolvable problems which leads us to last resorts with these pirates. There can be no other conclusion.
Pirates & fishermen
Once upon a time, well before Pirates of the Caribbean became a movie script, a Navy Lt. commented that "There is not a fisherman who is not a pirate; nor a canoe that is not a pirate vessel in miniature." (credit: Matthew C. Perry). Apt words for the present thread.
To counter that threat to US-flagged commerce, punitive anti-pirate expeditions marked early USMC history: Puerto Plata - 1800; Fajardo - 1824 (civility backed by firepower); and Quallah Battoo - 1832 (1st US military action in Asia). All of them were in an era where the flag followed commerce (to protect it) - with no "imperial pretensions" claimed.
As the shipowner's testimony evidences, the problem rests in the Executive and Legislative branches - not for lack of historical precedents.
Last edited by jmm99; 05-07-2009 at 04:18 AM. Reason: add link
Warships blamed for Somali piracy
An odd headline by the BBC, attached to a comment by a Puntland minister: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/8043285.stm
Another way of saying "We can solve this, give us the $". Look a flying pirate!
davidbfpo
What to do about the pirates?
From Brookings - The Convoy Solution to Combating Piracy
Much more at the linkBefore long, terrorists are likely to take note of the opportunity to seize Western hostages through similar acts of piracy—and their willingness to release any such hostages unharmed is open to serious doubt.
By nipping this problem in the bud, we can deter future acts of commercial piracy and prevent the nightmare scenario of an American crew in the hands of an Osama bin Laden devotee.
The right policy has three specific elements::
(1) We need to deal with pirates more firmly.
(2) We need to beef up our naval picket in the Gulf of Aden.
(3) Along the Somali coast, on the approach to Mombassa, Kenya, we should establish World War II-style convoys.
If you want to blend in, take the bus
This seems a reasonable, moderate proposal ...
The "capture and try, or kill if necessary" program (which could apply to all 3 suggested elements) would require a UN resolution to clarify the ROEs - that resolution would, I believe, pass here; but at the UN ?(from the link)
The right policy has three specific elements::
(1) We need to deal with pirates more firmly. That means being willing to detain and try them, rather than release them back on African shores. It also means being willing to shoot at them as they approach commercial ships, once a reasonable keep-out zone is penetrated. A United Nations Security Council resolution should explicitly authorize this.
(2) We need to beef up our naval picket in the Gulf of Aden. The number of ships there is clearly not adequate to the challenge. Because distances are modest and traffic is heavy, maintaining such a naval picket is probably the most efficient approach. Where possible, vessels should be equipped with unmanned aerial vehicles, some possibly armed, to improve coverage and enhance our rapidity of response.
(3) Along the Somali coast, on the approach to Mombassa, Kenya, we should establish World War II-style convoys. Here, in contrast to the Gulf of Aden, sea traffic is light and distances are long. So convoys make the most sense
SOMALI CRUISES Fun For The Whole Family!
We guarantee that you will experience at least two hijacking attempts by pirates or we will refund half your money back, including gun rental charges and any unused ammo (mini gun charges not included).
Welcome to Somali Cruises
We sail up and down the coast of Somalia waiting to get hijacked by pirates. We encourage you to bring your 'High powered weapons' along on the cruise. If you don't have weapons of your own, you can rent them on the boat.Don't forget to check out the TestimonialsOur rates
$800.00 US/per day double occupancy (4 day max billing).
M-16 full auto rental: $25.00/day .ammo: 100 rounds of 5.56 armor piercing ammo at $15.95.
Ak-47 assault riffle rental: No charge. ammo: 100 rounds of 7.62 com block ball ammo at $14.95.
Barrett M-107 .50 cal sniper riffle rental: $55.00/day. ammo: 25 rounds 50 cal armor piercing at $9.95.
RPG rental: $75/day. ammo: 3 standard loads at $200.
Mounted Mini-Gun $450.00 per 30 seconds of sustained fire.
Crew members can double as spotters for $30.00 per hour (spotting scope included).
"Everyone gets use of free complimentary night vision equipment and coffee and snacks on the top deck from 7pm-6am."
Meals are not included.
If you want to blend in, take the bus
Pirate cruises
Leaving aside the morality of a human safari for a moment. Consider the worst case scenario, the boat is boarded and captured - what then? I doubt if any travel insurer would insure you and your loved ones - hardly high risk like skiing.
Are these cruises really pirates themselves? Not all Somali boats are pirates, e.g. refugee boats in the Gulf of Aden. A PR gift too for the Somalis.
I supoose I should not be surprised and I assume this is not a hoax.
davidbfpo
Y'know what they say about don't assume.....
It is a hoax; a "spoof" website. Well done, but the cruises aren't real.
Depends on why you are going ashore - for what purpose - and with what resources. I wasn't thinking Peace Corps (a fine organization where it can be used). Think MEU.
Actually, the idea was Todd's. I'll have to let him know that his operational tactics are based on "Liberal assumptions". That will get him going.
When all is said (above by various posters), what is done depends on political will - which at present is not committed to a military solution of any kind - other than limited self-defense measures.
Actually I think it is in the Constitution, Art.1 Sec.8 both concerning the Navy, acts of Reprisal, and law on how to deal with captures on land and water.
Royal Marines in action
Not sure if they sank the skiffs with the pirates still on board... Pic
Clarity
The BBC News: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/8084098.stm says one of the two skiffs was sunk and the aspiring pirates released for another day. I hope they lost the weapons.
Update they did loss their weapons: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...abian-Sea.html
davidbfpo
Last edited by davidbfpo; 06-08-2009 at 11:34 AM. Reason: Add update and link
Attention to detail... don't leave home without it.
- love the money drop, very high techy, goes so well with multicultural relativism, they could have at least put a smiley face or two on the canister, happy pirates don't torture their victims before shooting them in the head ( cynicism mandated IMO)
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