Quote Originally Posted by wm View Post
Rob,
A fundamental consideration raised by your question is what is the antecedent to the pronoun in your question. That is, to whom does the "we" that is the subject of your question apply? Is it we Americans; we, the western, "civilized" world: we, the human race on earth; we the moderate Islamic denizens of the Middle East and Southwest Asia; etc.; etc. ?

I do not think one can answer your question until that "we" is further clarified. I would wager a great deal that the need for victory or triumph (and the criteria by which one would decide whether either had been attained) will vary quite a lot depending on who gets plugged in as the antecedent for that all important "we" in your question.

I don't want to pose the question without also proposing an answer. As an adjunct to my earlier post on the COG thread (http://council.smallwarsjournal.com/...&postcount=22)) that we are really looking at a different customer for the business we provide in a COIN campaign, the right answer for the "we" ought to be the customer we are seeking to serve.

It isn't about what we Americans or we the Coalition forces need--it is about what those we are serving need. The sooner we get that through our thick heads, the better.
WM

All good points and all relevant. I tried getting at this idea a couple of years ago when the SecDef was continuing to debate whether the insurgents were really insurgents according tothe DoD defintion. At the time I commented the definition had to come from the Iraqis because if they saw the insurgents as just that, then they were insurgents.

In this case, asking, "What do you mean by we, Paleface?" is probably more important than the triumph or victory issue.

Tom