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Old 04-26-2012   #1
AmericanPride
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Default Women in Military Service & Combat (not just USA)

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The title of this thread was Women, Military Readiness, and Int'l Security until today, 23rd October 2013 and has been changed to Women in Military Service & Combat (not just USA). Seven other threads, mainly SWJ Blog, have been merged in too. All prompted by a BBC News report on a Canadian women infantry officer, which will be the added soon (ends).



This appeared in the New York Times yesterday as the Marine Corps looks to study the impact of women in front-line units. Not a new debate really. More interesting is the conversation about gender relationships, security, and military effectiveness.

First, gender equality:

Quote:
Originally Posted by What Sex Means for World Peace
In fact, the very best predictor of a state's peacefulness is not its level of wealth, its level of democracy, or its ethno-religious identity; the best predictor of a state's peacefulness is how well its women are treated. What's more, democracies with higher levels of violence against women are as insecure and unstable as nondemocracies.

....

The evidence of violence against women is clear. So what does it mean for world peace? Consider the effects of sex-selective abortion and polygyny: Both help create an underclass of young adult men with no stake in society because they will never become heads of households, the marker for manhood in their cultures. It's unsurprising that we see a rise in violent crime, theft, and smuggling, whereby these young men seek to become contenders in the marriage market. But the prevalence of these volatile young males may also contribute to greater success in terrorist recruiting, or even state interest in wars of attrition that will attenuate the ranks of these men. For instance, the sole surviving terrorist from the 2008 Mumbai attacks testified that he was persuaded by his own father to participate in order to raise money for the dower that he and his siblings needed in order to marry.

We also know through experimental studies that post-conflict agreements that are negotiated without women break down faster than those that do include women, and that all-male groups take riskier, more aggressive, and less empathetic decisions than mixed groups -- two phenomena that may lead to higher levels of interstate conflict.
So, basically, gender security is a legitimate concern when predicting or resolving conflict. However, is female participation in the armed forces or in combat a substantial factor in a country's ability to favorably prosecute conflict? Is there a distinct female temperament, and what impact will it have as women enter into combat and strategic leadership roles in the armed forces?

This article provides a once-over-the-world review of women in armies around the world, while this 2009 UK MoD report goes into more detail of the applicable literature up to that time. This article points out that female youth obesity has grown slower than male youth obesity; so while both genders have shrinking eligible recruits for military service, females are less likely to be ineligible on the basis of weight (it also linked obesity with region and education, which is another conversation about military recruiting demographics and recruit eligibility).

Of course, there are objections about female temperaments, male temperament towards women, and female physical make-up and capacity but I have not seen a study yet linking female participation in combat with a unit's inability to conduct a combat mission or a country's ability to win a war. This article references US, Canadian, and Danish military reports that indicate the presence of women do not undermine unit effectiveness (and presumably, the overall war effort). That article was written in 2003, so I am curious what new evidence is out there, given the GWoT experiences, against the practicality and effectiveness of women in combat.This would seem to be the standard of proof, given that in war, only victory matters.
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Last edited by davidbfpo; 10-23-2013 at 09:25 AM. Reason: Add Mod's note
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Old 11-14-2012   #2
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Default Women Worry Scandal Will Hurt Role as Advisers

Women Worry Scandal Will Hurt Role as Advisers

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Old 01-23-2013   #3
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Default Panetta Lifts Ban on Women in Combat

http://news.msn.com/politics/panetta...omen-in-combat

Call me a sexist, old fashioned or whatever, but personally I don't like decision and believe due to political correctness and "gender norming" will degrade the force overall. But, if my daughter suddenly decided she wanted to be a riflman in the Marine Corps I would support her 100%. WTF is happening!
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Old 01-23-2013   #4
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Default I'll tell you what is happening to you!

You have lost you're mind and become Politically Correct (PC)! I hope they welcome you on the dark side.
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Old 01-23-2013   #5
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Even if the standards were to be the same, I still wouldn't like it. Yet, knowing the army, they will not be the same. Men will die when they are too heavy in kit to be drug to cover by a female in their fire team, or she herself will get shot. How is the average female going to affect the load plan for a 3 day operation? Can she, on average, bear the 40kg load with enough juice in the tank to sprint to cover or bound? Is the average female the one you want in front of you in a stack?

I dont see the fascination civilian committees have with all manner of changes to the military that have nothing to do with increasing our lethality on the battle field. If the changes wont make you more lethal/effective, why even consider it?
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Old 01-23-2013   #6
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Fortunately, I don't have to worry about it - she is 100% girl and has no interest in that stuff. So, I get to remain old fashioned and not PC.
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Old 01-23-2013   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyatt View Post
Even if the standards were to be the same, I still wouldn't like it. Yet, knowing the army, they will not be the same. Men will die when they are too heavy in kit to be drug to cover by a female in their fire team, or she herself will get shot. How is the average female going to affect the load plan for a 3 day operation? Can she, on average, bear the 40kg load with enough juice in the tank to sprint to cover or bound? Is the average female the one you want in front of you in a stack?

I dont see the fascination civilian committees have with all manner of changes to the military that have nothing to do with increasing our lethality on the battle field. If the changes wont make you more lethal/effective, why even consider it?
yep, I agree with you. There will be different standards - this is only the beginning. I want to puke.
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Old 02-03-2013   #8
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Default Combat Women and Congressís Wimps

Combat Women and Congressís Wimps

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Old 03-07-2013   #9
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Default Know Your Enemy: Lessons for the U.S. Military from Women in Armed Rebel Groups

Know Your Enemy: Lessons for the U.S. Military from Women in Armed Rebel Groups

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Old 05-11-2013   #10
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Default Military Culture Still Refuses to Include Women

Military Culture Still Refuses to Include Women

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Old 08-06-2013   #11
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Default Double Standard: Pentagon Hints at Changes to Allow More Women in Ground Combat

Double Standard: Pentagon Hints at Changes to Allow More Women in Ground Combat

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Old 08-07-2013   #12
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Default Women and the Audie Murphy Model

Women and the Audie Murphy Model

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Old 10-23-2013   #13
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Default Captain Collette: The life of a woman on the front line

A BBC News report:
Quote:
Capt Ashley Collette was the only woman in her platoon of soldiers on the Afghan front line. In the Canadian armed forces, unusually, every job is open to women - and both sexes live together and fight together.

(At the end citing the Captain) In my experience there's no reason why a band of brothers cannot be a band of brothers and sisters.
Link:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24622762
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Old 10-27-2013   #14
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knowing the army, they will not be the same. Men will die when they are too heavy in kit to be drug to cover by a female in their fire team, or she herself will get shot.
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