Army Imitates Apple (Computer Company) To Draw New Recruits

[Adam L]

Sounds like an interesting idea - one that I think may work.

Yes, but is that a good thing? As much as the Army needs recruits, is this the type of recruit that they should be looking for? Let me put it this way, "Are we that desperate?"

Apple does not care who is buying their product, but shouldn't the Army? Apple is selling toys and games, the Army is not a game. Also, this is going to play right into the hands of the people claiming that "Violent Video Games Kill People."

The Apache simulator allows a pilot and co-pilot to experience the aircraft and its weapons systems. The Black Hawk helicopter simulator provides four door gunner positions. And, the armored HMMWV vehicle simulator has positions for a driver and several gunners. The centers also will include an area where visitors can compete in America's Army, a videogame released in 2002.

Adam L

[Stevely]

Yes, but is that a good thing? As much as the Army needs recruits, is this the type of recruit that they should be looking for? Let me put it this way, "Are we that desperate?"

Adam L

I don't think it would be so bad. It would likely reach a better demgraphic than
slum dwellers, druggies, etc.

In principle, I don't see how this is any more deceptive than "Be all you can be," etc.

[Adam L]

I don't think it would be so bad. It would likely reach a better demgraphic than
slum dwellers, druggies, etc.

Who? Would this demographic be the lazy unemployed gamer? There may be some negative consequences that come along with drawing people in with simulators. The Army may actually get a few good candidates to consider the service, but they are going to draw in a lot of people who do not belong in there. I think there is potential for simulators. I think that it might be a good idea to have prospective aviation candidates have access to the simulators. Perhaps even some of the ground simulators would be a good idea. I just worry about recruiting people who have a VG view of reality.

In principle, I don't see how this is any more deceptive than "Be all you can be," etc.

Wait a minute. "Be all you can be.", is about and innocuous as it gets. So is "Army Strong." I didn't like the "Army of One" shtick, it really sent the wrong message.

Adam L

[Stevely]

Who? Would this demographic be the lazy unemployed gamer? There may be some negative consequences that come along with drawing people in with simulators. The Army may actually get a few good candidates to consider the service, but they are going to draw in a lot of people who do not belong in there. I think there is potential for simulators. I think that it might be a good idea to have prospective aviation candidates have access to the simulators. Perhaps even some of the ground simulators would be a good idea. I just worry about recruiting people who have a VG view of reality.



Wait a minute. "Be all you can be.", is about and innocuous as it gets. So is "Army Strong." I didn't like the "Army of One" shtick, it really sent the wrong message.

Adam L

Did kids in pre-video game times have a view of reality that really prepared them well for entering service? I had a certain view of the Army playing with plastic guns with my friends growing up and watching TV. Coming off the cattle car at Ft Sill was a pretty rude shock for me when I was 18, and my view of reality had to be drastically updated after that. I just don't think in that regard it's a big worry - kids then as now often have an idealized and romanticized view of being in the military which quickly changes once they enter service (though maybe kids today are much less fit at that age than they were back in the day thanks in part to video games, I have heard there is a problem with low fitness and obesity with prospective recruits?).

[Adam L]

Did kids in pre-video game times have a view of reality that really prepared them well for entering service? I had a certain view of the Army playing with plastic guns with my friends growing up and watching TV. Coming off the cattle car at Ft Sill was a pretty rude shock for me when I was 18, and my view of reality had to be drastically updated after that. I just don't think in that regard it's a big worry - kids then as now often have an idealized and romanticized view of being in the military which quickly changes once they enter service (though maybe kids today are much less fit at that age than they were back in the day thanks in part to video games, I have heard there is a problem with low fitness and obesity with prospective recruits?).

I get what you are saying, but was the Army handing you the toy guns and calling it a "simulation." Look, video games and toy guns are a lot of fun (If we are not being PC so are the real guns and artillery!) and that is my problem with this. We are not jut talking about a romanticized view of being in the military, we are talking about a "fun" one. Frankly, its not romanticized one bit, its just "cool" or something. (Sorry, I couldn't think of the proper jargon.) Sorry, I just don't like it when the Army feeds into this stuff.

I guess I'm just very pessimistic when it comes to kids these days. I find its not even that they have a romanticized view of the world, rather that they are just detached. Also, on a side note, is it just me or is romanticism dieing off?

Adam L

[Ken White]

I get what you are saying, but was the Army handing you the toy guns and calling it a "simulation." Look, video games and toy guns are a lot of fun (If we are not being PC so are guns and artillery!) and that is my problem with this. We are not jut talking about a romanticized view of being in the military, we are talking about a "fun" one. Frankly, its not romanticized one bit, its just "cool" or something. (Sorry, I couldn't think of the proper jargon.) Sorry, I just don't like it when the Army feeds into this stuff.

Adam L

Well, I put in 27 years as an infantryman and I thought it was fun. Was I wrong?

Worst job I ever had put me behind a desk for a year or so. That was NOT fun; wandering around in the boonies was fun...

I think the kids today are totally wired into games and simulations. I've got a few nephews who are both good athletes, a couple multi-sport, and into computer games and they're pretty smart kids with good GPA. This is just using an attraction that will work for some. The Army isn't feeding into anything, IMO -- they're simply recognizing that kids today aren't like I was in the 40s or Stevely was in the 90s.

Read an interesting article in this month International Defense Review. It discussed Natives and Immigrants in the wired world. Pointed out that the under 21 crowd today are Natives; they've grown up with computers, games and being totally interconnected. They do not like heirarchies, they do not like lectures and they won't tolerate the old ways of instruction and training. Regrettably, the over 30 crowd, the digital age Immigrants, are the opposite and cannot in many cases accept total interconnection even if they do use a computer -- yet they set the tone for the Natives. The article posited that the Immigrants were going to have to adapt and they'd better pay attention to the Natives. I think that's right.

This Apple Store bit is an example of some smart Immigrant being able to adapt and the Natives will like it. As I said, the Army isn't "feeding into it" -- they're simply adapting to current reality.

There are some flaky kids out there -- were back in my day, too -- there are also some good ones. Fortunately, they're the majority. They're a little softer in some respects than those of a half century ago but the world's changed and that's to be expected. Still, when decently trained and led and push comes to shove, they do okay.

[Adam L]

Well, I put in 27 years as an infantryman and I thought it was fun. Was I wrong?

No, I'm just saying that I think that this isn't just a format update (Posters to Video Games and 'Simulations".) With video games, you are drawing a very different crowd which has a lot of people who are not like your nephews.

Worst job I ever had put me behind a desk for a year or so. That was NOT fun; wandering around in the boonies was fun...

I think most people would agree with you. I don't know many people who enjoy piloting a desk.

I think the kids today are totally wired into games and simulations. I've got a few nephews who are both good athletes, a couple multi-sport, and into computer games and they're pretty smart kids with good GPA. This is just using an attraction that will work for some. The Army isn't feeding into anything, IMO -- they're simply recognizing that kids today aren't like I was in the 40s or Stevely was in the 90s.

My worry is that this new net is going to pick up a lot of undesirables, and its going to be hard to eliminate those which are just that.

Read an interesting article in this month International Defense Review. It discussed Natives and Immigrants in the wired world. Pointed out that the under 21 crowd today are Natives; they've grown up with computers, games and being totally interconnected. They do not like heirarchies, they do not like lectures and they won't tolerate the old ways of instruction and training. Regrettably, the over 30 crowd, the digital age Immigrants, are the opposite and cannot in many cases accept total interconnection even if they do use a computer -- yet they set the tone for the Natives. The article posited that the Immigrants were going to have to adapt and they'd better pay attention to the Natives. I think that's right.

I really have to disagree with this perception of the under 21 crowd. Despite all the technology, they are far less initiated than those that came in the ten years before them (not so much in software, but very much where hardware is concerned.) This crowd has very few among them who actually understand what they are doing rather than being able to merely operate the tools before them. The total interconnectivity that supposedly exists today is the result of older people making it so that everything is about as complicated as plugging in a telephone cable. I remember some of the early online games and what I had to go through to utilize them. I don't really understand where hierarchies come into this. As far as lectures, training, etc. go, my response is that is why most of them are almost useless. Today kids are going to college to gain the basic competencies they should have had coming out of high school.

I understand how so many older people it seems as though kids are so proficient and competent with these new and "advanced" devices, but this really is a misperception.

As far as the native vs immigrant thing is concerned, I don't think this is at all unique. The young will always become the establishment eventually, so of course the old always must watch out for them.

This Apple Store bit is an example of some smart Immigrant being able to adapt and the Natives will like it.

I don't think Apple's success has to do with that. I think it more has to do with bright shiny objects and marketing. The I pod is a poor product (no offense intended to anyone who owns one.) They are overpriced and do not have good sound quality. I was in a car audio store the other day, and I was talking with a gentlemen who certainly was old enough to be called an "older person" for the purpose of this debate. He was talking about how I was one of the few people he runs into who cares, let alone knows, what quality (sound) is. (I was mentioning that I hoped to build my own tube amplifier for the vehicle. I've worked on guitar amps, but I've never built one from scratch and I just can't resist the prospect of tube sound in a vehicle.)

As I said, the Army isn't "feeding into it" -- they're simply adapting to current reality.

I agree, it's like upgrading from radio to television, but that is exactly what's worrying me. There are a lot of radio people thinking they know how to portray themselves on TV. They may not realize that they need to not only worry about how they sound, but how they look.

There are some flaky kids out there -- were back in my day, too -- there are also some good ones. Fortunately, they're the majority. They're a little softer in some respects than those of a half century ago but the world's changed and that's to be expected. Still, when decently trained and led and push comes to shove, they do okay.

Even five years ago, I probably would have agreed with you, but now I just can't. The generation of kids I see coming out right now really has me worried.

Ken, from what you've said about your nephews and your family, you seem to have a good bunch. Unfortunately this is far from the norm which I have observed. What depresses me is that as bad as things are where I am now, they were just as bad in Canada. When I visit where I grew up, I see that it is just as bad there. Sorry about my bleak outlook.

Adam L

[bismark17]

I also agree with Ken. There was a recent Frontline special on kids and the internet or something along those lines that was very interesting. It's a very different world for our High School age kids. They seem to be more willing to engage in text messaging or communication over the internet instead of face to face commo.

I just got back into working out and have been very surprised at how little interaction there is at the gym. Most of the guys are lifting with IPODS in their ears and don't converse like in my generation. Its pretty wild actually. Its getting to the point that gyms don't need to provide music since most everyone is providing their own.

And I'm still running with a CD walkman....

[Adam L]

(though maybe kids today are much less fit at that age than they were back in the day thanks in part to video games, I have heard there is a problem with low fitness and obesity with prospective recruits?).

I agree with you about this. I wish they would replace the rumble pack in the controllers with a taser. Even if they kept playing, the shocks might help with muscle tone. The funny thing I've learned is that real "gamers" keep in half-decent shape. They need it in order to be able to play for 72 straight hours. On the other hand, most of the real gamers I've known would have ended up in cryptographic analysis, or have been recruited by the CIA as part of Operation Pocket Protector. Operation Pocket Protector being the secret plan to utilize super gamers (the pocket protector kind) to hunt down radical Islamofascist avatars and eliminate them with extreme prejudice. LOL!

Adam L