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  1. #11
    Council Member Bob's World's Avatar
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    Default Exactly.

    Quote Originally Posted by slapout9 View Post
    BW, so we (USA) are either doing FID or UW because it is literally impossible for a foreign power to do COIN?
    "COIN" is just a fancy word for a government doing the best it can to support its own populace. As day to day governance grows more and more out of touch with its populace the populace discontent grows as well, manifesting in subversion and, if left unchecked, ultimately insurgency.

    The role of the Government never changes, it is to govern. It is to provide Good Governance. We call that COIN when it is done in the face of growing insurgency. When someone comes in to help you govern, they are "helping with COIN" We call that FID, or IDAD or a variety of things. Too often of late we call it COIN, and push the primary provider aside, because A. we think we can do it better, or faster; and B. because if it’s the same mission, what does it matter who leads?

    Because who leads is an essential factor of effective COIN!

    Steve the Planner says "Hey England exploited the globe until it was no longer in there interest to do so, so they then just tossed those used and abused populaces aside of their own volition and look, it was all great for England." What about those populaces???? Was it great for them too??

    Virtually all of the insurgencies of the past 100 years have been rooted in populaces risking everything to rid themselves of such benevolent European Colonial rule. Oh, sure, England brought them European technologies, and governance; and also exploitation, slavery and disease and the right to be treated as a second class citizen in your own land.

    I hear Americans making the same arguments today, how American exploitation brings technology, governance, the rule of law. But it brings those same humiliating second order effects as well. Until we can walk in the shoes of those whose lands we work our national interests in, and treat them with the same respect we treat our own citizenry with, there will be movements to throw off the governments we put in place, or sustain in place over the will of the governed. More and more as the world becomes more globalized and connected those populaces will seek to travel to the homes of those who oppress them and strike them there.

    Even now we call those states that dare to reject European forms of governance as "failed states". Read Foreign Policy. Read their definition of a "Failed State." Pure Western arrogance. We define failed as a rejection of doing it our way.

    Until you can develop empathy, you cannot understand insurgency. Until you understand insurgency, you cannot understand counterinsurgency. Until you understand counterinsurgency, you cannot effectively travel to the land of another and help him effectively with his insurgency.

    Most need to start at square one. Develop empathy.
    Last edited by Bob's World; 05-27-2010 at 10:46 AM.
    Robert C. Jones
    Intellectus Supra Scientia
    (Understanding is more important than Knowledge)

    "The modern COIN mindset is when one arrogantly goes to some foreign land and attempts to make those who live there a lesser version of one's self. The FID mindset is when one humbly goes to some foreign land and seeks first to understand, and then to help in some small way for those who live there to be the best version of their own self." Colonel Robert C. Jones, US Army Special Forces (Retired)

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