Initial Officer Selection

[blueblood]

No offense, but the recruitment procedure for officers in UK Army seems a little easy (judging by the two videos). Physical and planning tests looked good but GD and PI were not good enough, no idea about the written test.

I faced a tougher competition in GD and PI for getting admission in my college for a simple bachelor's degree and it wasn't even the best in the city, let alone the state or country.

More than 350,000 applied for the written exams for NDA, and NA this year. This does not include CDS.

http://articles.timesofindia.indiati...-officials-nda

[PsJÄÄK Korte]

In Finland active officers don't need pre-existing university degree (apart from specialist officers, but they are different kind of breed) because cadets go through three year bachelor's degree in Military science.

Requirements for cadet training are secondary level education and either reserve officer or reserve non-commisioned officer training.

Selection process lasts two days and it consists of
First day (Everyone does same time):
Aptitude test for ability
Aptitude test for personality
Studying material for next day's literature exam

Second day (Timetable depends which platoon you belong)
Cooper's test
Interview
Group test
Medical examination
Literature exam (everyone does same time)

[JMA]

In Finland active officers don't need pre-existing university degree (apart from specialist officers, but they are different kind of breed) because cadets go through three year bachelor's degree in Military science.

Requirements for cadet training are secondary level education and either reserve officer or reserve non-commisioned officer training.

Selection process lasts two days and it consists of
First day (Everyone does same time):
Aptitude test for ability
Aptitude test for personality
Studying material for next day's literature exam

Second day (Timetable depends which platoon you belong)
Cooper's test
Interview
Group test
Medical examination
Literature exam (everyone does same time)

Thanks for the contribution.

Two questions, please.

What is the 'Cooper's test'?

And what percentage of those who start the course pass-out in the end and at what point of the course do most fall out?

[PsJÄÄK Korte]

Thanks for the contribution.

Two questions, please.

What is the 'Cooper's test'?

And what percentage of those who start the course pass-out in the end and at what point of the course do most fall out?

Oh. It seems to be Cooper test in english instead of Cooper's test
You have to run as "far" as you can in 12 minutes.
Minimum lenght of run for career soldier in Finland is 2600m.
Also I tried to find out on pass-outs and fall-out, but nothing came up.

[JMA]

Oh. It seems to be Cooper test in english instead of Cooper's test
You have to run as "far" as you can in 12 minutes.
Minimum lenght of run for career soldier in Finland is 2600m.

OK, thanks found the info here.

[JMA]

No offense, but the recruitment procedure for officers in UK Army seems a little easy (judging by the two videos). Physical and planning tests looked good but GD and PI were not good enough, no idea about the written test.

I faced a tougher competition in GD and PI for getting admission in my college for a simple bachelor's degree and it wasn't even the best in the city, let alone the state or country.

More than 350,000 applied for the written exams for NDA, and NA this year. This does not include CDS.

http://articles.timesofindia.indiati...-officials-nda

I don't want to get into an argument with you but I need to say that looking at those two videos no one can reach a definitive opinion on the quality or otherwise of the aspects of the Brit AOSB.

My interest in this subject is how best to structure the initial pre-course sekection process so as to reduce the attrition rate during the course itself.

I believe that on the information available the Brits run the most comprehensive pre-course selection process (the AOSB in two parts - first for two days then the 'main board' for four days). I hope to get a reply as to their attrition rate over the 44 weeks until commissioning.

Selection of youngsters with leadership potential does not have to be tough... it needs to be rigourous enough to be accurate... thats all.

I'm am also trying to get beyond the feel good situation that comes with the perception that those who pass are of the chosen few and get down to work out which is the most efficient system.

In this process I am constantly reminded what TE Lawrence said about the Brit officer around WW1 - that there was too much body and not enough mind - they have made progress in fixing this I believe (some believe the pendulum has swung too far in the other direction).

[blueblood]

I don't want to get into an argument with you but I need to say that looking at those two videos no one can reach a definitive opinion on the quality or otherwise of the aspects of the Brit AOSB.

My interest in this subject is how best to structure the initial pre-course sekection process so as to reduce the attrition rate during the course itself.

I believe that on the information available the Brits run the most comprehensive pre-course selection process (the AOSB in two parts - first for two days then the 'main board' for four days). I hope to get a reply as to their attrition rate over the 44 weeks until commissioning.

Selection of youngsters with leadership potential does not have to be tough... it needs to be rigourous enough to be accurate... thats all.

I'm am also trying to get beyond the feel good situation that comes with the perception that those who pass are of the chosen few and get down to work out which is the most efficient system.

In this process I am constantly reminded what TE Lawrence said about the Brit officer around WW1 - that there was too much body and not enough mind - they have made progress in fixing this I believe (some believe the pendulum has swung too far in the other direction).

I apologize if I have offended you in any way. JMA, my grandfather was a British Indian Army officer from 1942-1950, so I was always under the impression that becoming an officer in Royal Army is a very tough nut to crack. But as I said, videos suggested the other way. I could be wrong, but the way I see it, that the cream of British population is shying away from the armed forces.

BTW, I do not have any doubt that the British training is still one of the best
in the world. I have seen a reality TV series about Royal Marines and their training was extremely good from what I judged from a layman's point of view.

[JMA]

I apologize if I have offended you in any way. JMA, my grandfather was a British Indian Army officer from 1942-1950, so I was always under the impression that becoming an officer in Royal Army is a very tough nut to crack. But as I said, videos suggested the other way. I could be wrong, but the way I see it, that the cream of British population is shying away from the armed forces.

Not that easily offended but thanks for the concern.

I suggest that if you cast your mind back to when you were 18-22 and consider who you would choose as a leader if you were to be confronted by a life or death situation. Would it be the biggest guy? The sttrongest guy? The one who could run the the furtherest, the fastest? Maybe none of the above. Maybe it would be difficult to explain/define/quantify how you selected him?

This is what I am tying to establish. What are these important intangibles and what is the best/most efficient/accurate way of selecting those with these characteristics.

BTW, I do not have any doubt that the British training is still one of the best in the world. I have seen a reality TV series about Royal Marines and their training was extremely good from what I judged from a layman's point of view.

Oh BTW I am not an apologist for the Brits.

Winston Churchill once said: "The Americans will always do the right thing . . . After they've exhausted all the alternatives." Sometimes the same must be said of the Brits as well.

The Royal Marines are up there with the best... but don't be fooled by a video.

[blueblood]

You're welcome.

I am 23 right now, so its a non issue.
I'll go with the smartest guy with a decent fitness level. If physical fitness alone is the criteria, then a NCO may be more qualified than an officer. AFAIK, officers are there to lead and plan whereas grunts are there for firepower.

I have never understood what Winston Churchill was. Sometimes he appeared to be a great leader, sometimes a plain fool and a liar. But that could be my prejudice for I am an Indian.

JMA, let me provide you some info about Indian recruitment procedure, so you can provide a fair assessment with respect to other armies.

For 10+2 - National Defence Academy (NDA), tri service.

http://nda.nic.in/html/nda-admission-details.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationa...Academy_(India)

For graduation and above

Combined Defence Servies (CDS)

A written exam, if cleared followed by a Services Selection Board (SSB).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Services_Selection_Board

http://arindam.wordpress.com/2008/02...ssb-interview/

Engineers if recruited from college campus can skip the entrance exam appear directly for SSB.

[Ken White]

Very impressive test and assessment cycle...

[JMA]

The Selection Process of Joining Bangladesh Army is well laid out in the blog.