Germany (catch all, incl. terrorism)

[davidbfpo]

There is a separate thread 'Germany - terrorism/military operations/America' which provides some background, but on a quick scan the focus is on the Islamic threat, so today's news deserves a new thread. Old thread:http://council.smallwarsjournal.com/...ead.php?t=5483

BBC News:

New arrest as Germany links neo-Nazis to 10 murders...Police in Germany have made a second arrest after the dramatic discovery of evidence linking a self-styled Nazi group to the murder of nine foreigners...The murders were committed in several German cities ...between 2000 and 2007.

The group only came to light this week after one alleged member surrendered and two others killed themselves....She handed herself in on Tuesday after allegedly blowing up the flat she had rented in the eastern town of Zwickau.

Link:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-15714084

The murky world of intelligence gathering appears:

Allegations surfaced Sunday that one or more members of the group, which called itself the National Socialist Underground, may have worked as confidential informants for Germany’s domestic intelligence service.

The NYT story has other details:http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/14/wo..._r=1&ref=world

Neo-Nazi activities in Germany are a controversial subject, some press coverage has referred to a lack of political will in responding and this evening's BBC Radio 4 News the Bundestag made this the first item and listened to the Chancellor's report. See:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-15727841

No doubt some will describe the undetected crime series as an example of "failing to join the dots".

We shall to watch what happens.

[Fuchs]

It's still a bit early to discuss this. Judging by the press reports, even the police is busy trying to form an accurate picture.

They had apparently been unable to connect multiple violent crimes over a decade to a common theme because the 'terrorists' (judging by the news, "sociopaths" would be as accurate) did not publish anything.

[davidbfpo]

Fuchs,

Agreed. It is rather a strange phenomena for political killers to act and not publicise their actions. Which hardly makes them terrorists either. Plus the traditional difficulties for law enforcement of linking crimes and linking suspects to crimes. Add in keeping the secret within such a small group, who appear to be all bound together and living together until the end.

Hardly "Lone Wolves" of course, more like a pack of wolves.

It will be interesting to see what books etc they have been reading.

Reminds me of the Greek November 17th group, who lasted from 1975 to 2002:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolut...on_17_November They were finally ended when one member was captured and the "dominoes" fell.

Odd that in Olso Brevik made a court appearance today:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-15720289

[bourbon]

The murky world of intelligence gathering appears:

German Lawmakers to Probe Neo-Nazi Cell as Agencies Questioned, by Patrick Donahue. Bloomberg, 15 November 2011.

Nov. 15 (Bloomberg) -- German officials pledged to find out how an underground neo-Nazi cell could have carried out murders, attacks and bank robberies for over a decade as the widening scandal turned to the role played by domestic intelligence.

Lawmakers who oversee intelligence matters in the lower house of parliament will investigate what security agents knew about an organization calling itself the National Socialist Underground, a group of at least three extremists that has in the past week been accused of carrying out 10 primarily race- motivated killings throughout Germany since 2000.

Oppermann confirmed that an undercover agent was at the crime scene of an April 2006 shooting of an Internet cafe owner in the western city of Kassel, though the agent told authorities he’d left before the killing took place.

[davidbfpo]

A German report, added in case a nearer to the scene report helps:http://www.spiegel.de/international/...797572,00.html

Plus a graphic for background:http://www.spiegel.de/flash/flash-27425.html

[Firn]

A German report, added in case a nearer to the scene report helps:http://www.spiegel.de/international/...797572,00.html

Plus a graphic for background:http://www.spiegel.de/flash/flash-27425.html

I'm usually not the guy to jumb conclusions, but it really seems to be an affair with many questions for many persons in the Bund and the Lnder, in the politics and the police. Especially the role of the Verfassungsschutz and it's V-men. It is difficult to declare as terrorism for the reason given by others, but maybe it is a posthumous one which can not be directly tackled by the police as most of the terrorist cell are already dead.

The nickname "little Adolf" for a key V-men of the whole affair has a dark shade perhaps not know by many. The orignal worked as a V-men in the chaotic years after the end of the Great war. Maybe his role as V-man was well know to important others in the Neo-movement?

[davidbfpo]

Firn,

Thank you for the update.

Verfassungsschutz is the German word for 'Protection of the Constitution' or internal security.

I am aware that both Federal and Lander (State) bodies are intelligence agencies and do not have powers of arrest & search. Due to the constitution, history and politics even some of their information gathering is limited, so placing a greater reliance on the relationship with the police.

[Fuchs]

Some background:

Right wing terror was an invention of the post-WWI period (1919). The leftists attempted revolutions, were defeated in civil-war like scenes on the streets and then the right wingers proceeded to try some coup d'etats. The army was largely neutral, but paramilitary right-wing militias (Freikorps) participated.

The open combat of the 1919-1923 period subsided after the hyperinflation, but right and left wing continued (sporadic) violence.

During this time it became obvious that the establishment's police and courts (old national-conservative men) were biased.
The police was effectively in its work against left-wing criminals and the judges preferred maximum sentences on them.
Against right wing violence (even homicides) there was rarely an arrest and there were even cases where right wing murderers only had to pay a fine.

This (and some unpleasant experiences in the early Federal Republic history till the '68s) led to the phrase 'auf dem rechten Auge blind' (blind on the right eye.
This phrase has already been revived in regard to the current scandal, becuase it appears to be the only explanation that survives Occam's Razor.
The quantity of cases of ineffectiveness on part of police and intelligence agents in this case is so great that randomness is a poor explanation.

---------------------

The whole thing is terribly embarrassing on many levels, for
multiple states, the federal level, multiple parties in power, multiple types of agencies were failing.
On top of that it plays into the hands of the left-wing Antifa (anti-fascists, a very wide definition) and multiple minority groups (Muslim groups are already complaining that they were under scrutiny, but the group of right wingers killed more than Muslim terrorists in Germany and it wasn't even known).

It's also amazing how in a country of increased domestic espionage, a need to register at the county when you move your appartment and so on at least one of the group was able to live in the underground for more than 10 years. On top of that, the Verfassungsschutz surely had to spot him sometime in this period.



I'd also like to point out that during the roughly ten years of right wing killings, several bus drivers killed more people than the whole right wing. Or left wing. Or Muslims.
Bus drivers are scary as a group by comparison!
(Well, either that of these errorists aren't exactly scary. Make your choice!)


Sven <--- still using busses

[Firn]

It seems that the various agencies were not only blind on the right eye, but also deaf on the right ear.

http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/i...-11532117.html

„Dönerkiller“ heißt der [2010] Song aus der CD „Adolf Hitler lebt!“, in dem die Band die Mordserie an acht türkischen und einem griechischen Geschäftsmann klar als zusammenhängende, ausländerfeindliche Taten eines „Dönerkillers“ feiert und sich daran ergötzt, dass die Behörden einem Phantom nachjagen: „Neun mal hat er es jetzt schon getan“, die Ermittler „drehen durch, weil man ihn nicht findet. Er kommt, er tötet und verschwindet“.

"Gigi und die braunen Stadtmusikanten" ( somewhat a pun on the Bremer Stadtmusikanten) made a song in 2010 which it was taken for granted that the various killing were committed by a Dönerkiller which spreads fear in the Kebabs (turkish fast food rest.) which was not sated with 9 (victims). This band is said to be among the most prominent extreme right-wing bands.

Die mythisch-musikalische Überhöhung der drei Mitglieder der Terrorzelle wiederum hatte schon kurz nach ihrem Abtauchen in die Illegalität begonnen. In einem Lied aus dem Jahr 1999 thematisiert das rechtsextremistische Duo „Eichenlaub“ das Verschwinden der drei. „Eichenlaub“ war direkt mit der Kameradschaft „Thüringer Heimatschutz“ verbunden, aus der Böhnhardt, Mundlos und Frau Z. kamen. „Ihr hattet wohl keine andere Wahl“, heißt es in dem Lied. Und: „Der Kampf geht weiter, für unser deutsches Vaterland.“

A small band "Eichenlaub" (Oak being the "German" tree) linked to the Thuringian Homeguard from which the three suspects come, sung about them and their disappearing. "You had probably no other chance", and "The fight goes on, for our German fatherland".

----

Of course it is pretty difficult to know if rumours by good comrades caused dear Gigi to write such a wonderful song or if it was just hopeful speculation. And with hindsight it is easy to connect the dots. But it shows that it was thinkable to view the seemingly unlinked killings in such a specific context.

It really is, as Fuchs wrote, a big scandal and pretty hard to argue that it was a massive failure on many levels. Maybe the most lentinent view on the whole business is that the Verfassungsschutz felt that they had such good info about the various Neonazis groups, especially with the many V-men, that they could do nothing of such scale without their knowledge.

P.S: This guy featured in the propaganda material compiled by the trio.